Linda Caporicci

I am the female who got ticked off at the sketchy passing by you Mr. Therapeutic SS. A couple of things for you to remember:
1. I am racing too. I am actually racing for a podium position so it matters when a dimwit passes in a haphazard and rough way and risks taking me out.
2. Ryan Weaver and Johnny Vergis have passed me as well as the 2 gentlemen right after you, but the difference was they all managed to pass with respect and courtesy. I think Ryan and Johnny count for racing out there so I know it can be done. I even thank them after the race on how they pass. Even after the race I thank them. Perhaps I am not pushing hard enough since I can speak? But that is another conversation.
3. So, I may chastise you when you deserve it but I also thank those who deserve it. The truth hurts buddy.
4. If you can not manage to pass with respect and courtesy then I would say you should not be passing me. Cat down then. Man up and treat us right out there. The others prove that it can be done.
5. On top of everything else as soon as you did pass me you promptly crashed in front of me. Uh I would venture to say you were riding a bit out of your skill level if you can't pass and stay passed and upright.
6. We can talk in person at the races if you like but I think I speak for all riders when I say PASS WITH CLASS AND GRACE buddy! That goes for men, women, children and everything in between. If you pass in a crass way then you open yourself up for my crass response. I call that fair.

Brooke Hoyer

Lolz.

Hold your line? That would work for about 150 total yards of the PIR STX
course. When riders are winding through those snaky curves there isn't
really a "line" to hold. If I'm lapping someone, I'll let them know I'm
coming. SOP is to get position going into the corner and just railing it.
For lapped traffic, a heads-up at least lets them know there will be close
quarters and to expect that will have to brake. For riders in my own field,
well, they usually pass me. And when they do, they don't announce. And if
it's in a corner, they get position and it's my responsibility to not crash
us out.

Monday's course was very twisty and that meant lots of passing in close
quarters. I appreciated every time a lapped rider gave me a little bit of
extra room. I wish I had the wherewithal to call out a thanks each and
every time.

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:22 PM, william fasano <
thegreengaragepdx@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hold your line! No matter how fast or slow or which cat. you are.Class
> dismissed.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Dan Anderson wrote:
>
>> I've been in 11 races in my entire 'career', so I think I can speak as a
>> beginner rider. Personally, I'd rather be passed quickly & quietly, and
>> with as much room as you can reasonably give. Twice in STXC this year I
>> had people shout their passing intentions at me from behind, and both times
>> nearly caused me to wreck.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Brian Peterson
>> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:55 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] STXC etiquitte?
>>
>> I think a distinction needs to be made regarding which category is being
>> discussed. If we're talking about Cat 3, I disagree with what's been said
>> already. Cat 3 has three parts: one part legs, one part group riding
>> (meaning how to ride well with others), but the most important part is
>> LEARNING TO RACE. Cat 3, unless I completely misunderstand the whole point
>> of this, is a Beginner class - meaning racers in that category may not have
>> had any instruction or guidance in what to expect (especially if you show
>> up on a night where the free clinic doesn't materialize). When a beginner
>> rider is passed by the lead riders at their maximum pace, it can be an
>> unnerving experience for those being passed. Depending on the etiquette of
>> the overtaking rider, that moment has the potential to completely turn off
>> that novice racer to the whole idea of STXC. For me personally, being an
>> anchor for the bottom of Cat 3, its very easy to tell who's taking things
>> too seriously and who understands the real purpose of it (a safe and fun
>> introduction to mountain bike racing).
>>
>> So here's a test - If you believe you don't need to warn a Cat 3 rider
>> (of any age, who may be preoccupied at the passing moment with just trying
>> to stay upright through the whoops or ruts or off-camber turns) with a
>> simple "On Your Left/Right" because:
>> A. doing so will expend too much energy and would put your lap time and
>> hence top 5 finish at risk, OR
>> B. you believe that beginners should either learn to ride, suck it up,
>> or get off the track,
>>
>> then you should self-promote to Cat 2 or above.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Mike Rosenfeld

this seems to be the right solution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythed_chariot

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:22 PM, william fasano <
thegreengaragepdx@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hold your line! No matter how fast or slow or which cat. you are.Class
> dismissed.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Dan Anderson wrote:
>
>> I've been in 11 races in my entire 'career', so I think I can speak as a
>> beginner rider. Personally, I'd rather be passed quickly & quietly, and
>> with as much room as you can reasonably give. Twice in STXC this year I
>> had people shout their passing intentions at me from behind, and both times
>> nearly caused me to wreck.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Brian Peterson
>> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:55 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] STXC etiquitte?
>>
>> I think a distinction needs to be made regarding which category is being
>> discussed. If we're talking about Cat 3, I disagree with what's been said
>> already. Cat 3 has three parts: one part legs, one part group riding
>> (meaning how to ride well with others), but the most important part is
>> LEARNING TO RACE. Cat 3, unless I completely misunderstand the whole point
>> of this, is a Beginner class - meaning racers in that category may not have
>> had any instruction or guidance in what to expect (especially if you show
>> up on a night where the free clinic doesn't materialize). When a beginner
>> rider is passed by the lead riders at their maximum pace, it can be an
>> unnerving experience for those being passed. Depending on the etiquette of
>> the overtaking rider, that moment has the potential to completely turn off
>> that novice racer to the whole idea of STXC. For me personally, being an
>> anchor for the bottom of Cat 3, its very easy to tell who's taking things
>> too seriously and who understands the real purpose of it (a safe and fun
>> introduction to mountain bike racing).
>>
>> So here's a test - If you believe you don't need to warn a Cat 3 rider
>> (of any age, who may be preoccupied at the passing moment with just trying
>> to stay upright through the whoops or ruts or off-camber turns) with a
>> simple "On Your Left/Right" because:
>> A. doing so will expend too much energy and would put your lap time and
>> hence top 5 finish at risk, OR
>> B. you believe that beginners should either learn to ride, suck it up,
>> or get off the track,
>>
>> then you should self-promote to Cat 2 or above.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

william fasano

Hold your line! No matter how fast or slow or which cat. you are.Class
dismissed.

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Dan Anderson wrote:

> I've been in 11 races in my entire 'career', so I think I can speak as a
> beginner rider. Personally, I'd rather be passed quickly & quietly, and
> with as much room as you can reasonably give. Twice in STXC this year I
> had people shout their passing intentions at me from behind, and both times
> nearly caused me to wreck.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Brian Peterson
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] STXC etiquitte?
>
> I think a distinction needs to be made regarding which category is being
> discussed. If we're talking about Cat 3, I disagree with what's been said
> already. Cat 3 has three parts: one part legs, one part group riding
> (meaning how to ride well with others), but the most important part is
> LEARNING TO RACE. Cat 3, unless I completely misunderstand the whole point
> of this, is a Beginner class - meaning racers in that category may not have
> had any instruction or guidance in what to expect (especially if you show
> up on a night where the free clinic doesn't materialize). When a beginner
> rider is passed by the lead riders at their maximum pace, it can be an
> unnerving experience for those being passed. Depending on the etiquette of
> the overtaking rider, that moment has the potential to completely turn off
> that novice racer to the whole idea of STXC. For me personally, being an
> anchor for the bottom of Cat 3, its very easy to tell who's taking things
> too seriously and who understands the real purpose of it (a safe and fun
> introduction to mountain bike racing).
>
> So here's a test - If you believe you don't need to warn a Cat 3 rider (of
> any age, who may be preoccupied at the passing moment with just trying to
> stay upright through the whoops or ruts or off-camber turns) with a simple
> "On Your Left/Right" because:
> A. doing so will expend too much energy and would put your lap time and
> hence top 5 finish at risk, OR
> B. you believe that beginners should either learn to ride, suck it up, or
> get off the track,
>
> then you should self-promote to Cat 2 or above.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Dan Anderson

I've been in 11 races in my entire 'career', so I think I can speak as a beginner rider. Personally, I'd rather be passed quickly & quietly, and with as much room as you can reasonably give. Twice in STXC this year I had people shout their passing intentions at me from behind, and both times nearly caused me to wreck.

________________________________
From: Brian Peterson
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] STXC etiquitte?

I think a distinction needs to be maderegardingwhich category is being discussed. If we're talking about Cat 3, I disagree with what's been said already. Cat 3 has three parts: one part legs, one part group riding (meaning how to ride well with others), but the most important part is LEARNING TO RACE. Cat 3, unless I completely misunderstand the whole point of this, is a Beginner class - meaning racers in that category may not have had any instruction or guidance in what to expect (especially if you show up on a night where the free clinic doesn't materialize). When a beginner rider is passed by the lead riders at their maximum pace, it can be an unnerving experience for those being passed. Depending on theetiquetteof the overtaking rider, that moment has the potential to completely turn off that novice racer to the whole idea of STXC. For me personally, being an anchor for the bottom of Cat 3, its very easy to tell who's taking
things too seriously and who understands the real purpose of it (a safe and fun introduction to mountain bike racing).

So here's a test - If you believe you don't need to warn a Cat 3 rider (of any age, who may be preoccupied at the passing moment with just trying to stay upright through the whoops or ruts or off-camber turns) with a simple "On Your Left/Right" because:
A. doing so will expend too much energy and would put your lap time and hence top 5 finish at risk, OR
B. you believe that beginners should either learn to ride, suck it up, or get off the track,

then you should self-promote to Cat 2 or above.

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Brian Peterson

I think a distinction needs to be made regarding which category is being
discussed. If we're talking about Cat 3, I disagree with what's been said
already. Cat 3 has three parts: one part legs, one part group riding
(meaning how to ride well with others), but the most important part is
LEARNING TO RACE. Cat 3, unless I completely misunderstand the whole point
of this, is a Beginner class - meaning racers in that category may not have
had any instruction or guidance in what to expect (especially if you show
up on a night where the free clinic doesn't materialize). When a beginner
rider is passed by the lead riders at their maximum pace, it can be an
unnerving experience for those being passed. Depending on the etiquette of
the overtaking rider, that moment has the potential to completely turn off
that novice racer to the whole idea of STXC. For me personally, being an
anchor for the bottom of Cat 3, its very easy to tell who's taking things
too seriously and who understands the real purpose of it (a safe and fun
introduction to mountain bike racing).

So here's a test - If you believe you don't need to warn a Cat 3 rider (of
any age, who may be preoccupied at the passing moment with just trying to
stay upright through the whoops or ruts or off-camber turns) with a simple
"On Your Left/Right" because:
A. doing so will expend too much energy and would put your lap time and
hence top 5 finish at risk, OR
B. you believe that beginners should either learn to ride, suck it up, or
get off the track,

then you should self-promote to Cat 2 or above.

Brooke Hoyer

I guess my take is that racers on the lead lap have no obligation to give any quarter. But when I find myself road furniture (lapped rider), I try not to be a factor in the outcome of the race.

At STX I get it both ways. In the SS race we get into lapped traffic in a hurry and I try to pass quickly and announce my intentions to lapped riders. In the Cat 1 45+ race, I make sure to give the pro guys ample room to get by on the fly.

IMHO, atmo, HTH and such.
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Dan Anderson wrote:

Isn't it on all riders to find a place to pass safely enough that they don't need to call it out? I've nearly crashed a couple of times when riders tried to squeeze by me in a bad location and thought calling out their intentions would make me move off my line to let them by. This ain't a 6-hour XC ride where you need to move aside to let people by -- go ahead & keep the good line!

_____________________________________________
From: Spencer
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 12:33 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] STXC etiquitte?

I'll probably invite some wrath with this, so I apologize beforehand.

STXC at PIR is two parts; one part legs, one part passing.

I apologize for not calling out my side of passing to riders 50+ times each race in my hypoxic state. Sometimes, its all i can do to stay upright and pedal, so mustering a loud yell in the dust isnt always practical or possible. I try to at every chance that my body permits. Not being able to yell a side is no reason to to get cranky. Use your "peripherals" if you're startled easily.

Please Please Please don't block, throw elbows, or verbally berate riders that are lapping you. If you have that much energy to yell at riders as they pass, ride faster. WE are all racing, and no one wants to not only battle with their field, but battle with those equally rad riders that are being lapped.

Lets all play bikes together in a nice way. See you in the dirt.
Thanks

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Dan Anderson

Isn't it on all riders to find a place to pass safely enough that they don't need to call it out? I've nearly crashed a couple of times when riders tried to squeeze by me in a bad location and thought calling out their intentions would make me move off my line to let them by. This ain't a 6-hour XC ride where you need to move aside to let people by -- go ahead & keep the good line!

________________________________
From: Spencer
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2012 12:33 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] STXC etiquitte?

I'll probably invite some wrath with this, so I apologize beforehand.

STXC at PIR is two parts; one part legs, one part passing.

I apologize for not calling out my side of passing to riders 50+ times each race in my hypoxic state. Sometimes, its all i can do to stay upright and pedal, so mustering a loud yell in the dust isnt always practical or possible. I try to at every chance that my body permits. Not being able to yell a side is no reason to to get cranky. Use your "peripherals" if you're startled easily.

Please Please Please don't block, throw elbows, or verbally berate riders that are lapping you. If you have that much energy to yell at riders as they pass, ride faster. WE are all racing, and no one wants to not only battle with their field, but battle with those equally rad riders that are being lapped.

Lets all play bikes together in a nice way. See you in the dirt.
Thanks

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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Spencer

I'll probably invite some wrath with this, so I apologize beforehand.

STXC at PIR is two parts; one part legs, one part passing.

I apologize for not calling out my side of passing to riders 50+ times each race in my hypoxic state. Sometimes, its all i can do to stay upright and pedal, so mustering a loud yell in the dust isnt always practical or possible. I try to at every chance that my body permits. Not being able to yell a side is no reason to to get cranky. Use your "peripherals" if you're startled easily.

Please Please Please don't block, throw elbows, or verbally berate riders that are lapping you. If you have that much energy to yell at riders as they pass, ride faster. WE are all racing, and no one wants to not only battle with their field, but battle with those equally rad riders that are being lapped.

Lets all play bikes together in a nice way. See you in the dirt.
Thanks