OBRA: OBRA Chat: What are Championship races?

Micros8391@aol.com

2012-08-16

Maybe some way of making being the champion more meaningful. In the old USA
Cycling days it meant nationals or Olympic trials qualifier. It was the
most important race of the year. How about free entry fees for a year for the
winner of each category when racing that category in the same event? This
should be a pretty minor hit to the promoters.

Plus, I think the award and the ceremony has diminished over the years. I
have been at championship events where there was not even a podium. It would
be great if we could get the awards engraved with the event, the category,
and the placing.

Mike

In a message dated 8/16/2012 11:45:51 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cmurray@obra.org writes:

Ron and all
Thanks so much for looking at those numbers. I too remember when the Sr
Men field was 100 riders.
I have been tasked with developing minimum standards and categories for
the Championships. If any of you have some input please let me know.
Remember that we really are a member organization and all of your
suggestions are welcome and many can be presented as rule changes at the annual
meeting.
Candi

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:37 AM
To: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

Rick,

Again...OBRA already has you covered.

If you're not someone who values the achievements of Olympic or World
Championship atheletes, who get one chance to prove they are the best, and
deliver; but would rather see someone be consistently good; then consider the
BAR or Oregon Cup winners as your champions.

I see them as two separate things...both have value, both deserve
recognition, and both belong in OBRA.

I have my own ideas for some changes to the championships that don't
involve a completely different format. But, before we go too far down the road
of overhauling them...

Crit participation:
2012 Bend - 180
2011 Bend - 173
2010 Albany - 238
2009 Albany - 297
2008 Gresham - 241
2007 Gresham - 279

First...yes, I spent too much time on this. Second...maybe the simple
answer is location.

Ron

____________________________________

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:02:24 -0700
From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
To: mike.murray@obra.org
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

I don't depute that there is utility in different methods of recognition.
It comes down to one's definition of what makes a "Champion" since
technically either single events or series have been historically used. For me
examples of champions are people like Kenny Roberts, Mario Andretti, Ayrton
Senna and Dale Earnhardt. They didn't just show up and have one good race to
earn the number 1 and the right to be called The Champion. They had to race
all season, different venues, changing weather, overcome bad days and
through it all come out on top. To me that is the most indisputable measure of
achievement.
Are there cyclists who embody the same qualities as the examples above?
Certainly. However, since the current picture of that in cycling is to put it
politely, cloudy, I will refrain from listing specific examples.

In conclusion I believe one day events are a poor way of crowning a
Champion. This is especially true at the more amateur levels of bicycle
competition where fitness is seasonal and peoples schedules often cannot be
dedicated to one day in the season.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 8/16/2012 9:43 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

World Championships or Olympic Champions are seasonal series?
Championships are by their nature awards for a single good (or lucky) performance.
There is the BAR, Oregon Cup, TT series, etc. for series awards. There is a
utility in having both.

Mike

From: _obra-bounces@list.obra.org_ (mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org)
[_mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org_ (mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org) ] On
Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:22
To: _obra@list.obra.org_ (mailto:obra@list.obra.org)
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5
racers at the Crit Championships this weekend...

And that illustrates the shortcoming with having a "Championship" decided
by a single event. Many (perhaps most) other racing series' of all types
crown their champions based on a seasonal series. It helps bolster regular
attendance, gives spectators more action to follow and recognizes those who
consistently perform at the top of their field.
Personally I've never taken the OBRA Championship events seriously since
they recognize only those who have one good race at a single point in an
otherwise long season.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 8/16/2012 9:12 AM, adam holt wrote:

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5
racers at the Crit Championships this weekend in Bend... There was one DNF -
so everyone else made the podium!

I've only raced one (very small local) crit in my life, but if I had known
there were only 4 people racing, I'd have thrown on a jersey and headed
down there to try it out!

Adam

____________________________________

From: _miker0629@yahoo.com_ (mailto:miker0629@yahoo.com)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:54:22 -0700
To: _danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com_ (mailto:danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com)
CC: _obra@list.obra.org_ (mailto:obra@list.obra.org) ;
_stewartcycling@yahoo.com_ (mailto:stewartcycling@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

Well, just don't think you're the only person to think of that! I imagine
that's why there are guys rocking 27mph averages in the novice cat at TTs.
Just sayin'.

Mike

On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Dan Anderson <_danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com_
(mailto:danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com) > wrote:

Wow, do you get to wear a champ jersey for crushing the field in a
beginner category too? I gotta keep that in mind...

____________________________________

From: Erik Voldengen <_erikv@erikv.com_ (mailto:erikv@erikv.com) >
To: Stewart Campbell <_stewartcycling@yahoo.com_
(mailto:stewartcycling@yahoo.com) >
Cc: _obra@list.obra.org_ (mailto:obra@list.obra.org)
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

It's an OBRA championship. You are racing to be the best in OBRA in your
category. When you wear a champ jersey, you've earned it by placing first
in a championship event.

And yes, that does mean medals to the top three in each category.

Erik

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Stewart Campbell
<_stewartcycling@yahoo.com_ (mailto:stewartcycling@yahoo.com) > wrote:
I know I've been racing long enough to know about this but I don't.

What are championship events? How do I find out which races are champ
races?

For example the OBRA hillclimb this Sunday states "Medals are awarded to
OBRA Champions." Does that mean medals to the top 3 in each category?

What does it mean to wear a champ jersey? I also just say a posting about
ordering champ bibs?

Maybe post your response publically so that if others have the same
questions they will be informed too.

Thanks OBRA land.
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Candi Murray

2012-08-16

Ron and all

Thanks so much for looking at those numbers. I too remember when the Sr Men
field was 100 riders.

I have been tasked with developing minimum standards and categories for the
Championships. If any of you have some input please let me know.

Remember that we really are a member organization and all of your
suggestions are welcome and many can be presented as rule changes at the
annual meeting.

Candi

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Frerichs
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:37 AM
To: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

Rick,

Again...OBRA already has you covered.

If you're not someone who values the achievements of Olympic or World
Championship atheletes, who get one chance to prove they are the best, and
deliver; but would rather see someone be consistently good; then consider
the BAR or Oregon Cup winners as your champions.

I see them as two separate things...both have value, both deserve
recognition, and both belong in OBRA.

I have my own ideas for some changes to the championships that don't involve
a completely different format. But, before we go too far down the road of
overhauling them...

Crit participation:
2012 Bend - 180
2011 Bend - 173
2010 Albany - 238
2009 Albany - 297
2008 Gresham - 241
2007 Gresham - 279

First...yes, I spent too much time on this. Second...maybe the simple
answer is location.

Ron

_____

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:02:24 -0700
From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
To: mike.murray@obra.org
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

I don't depute that there is utility in different methods of recognition. It
comes down to one's definition of what makes a "Champion" since technically
either single events or series have been historically used. For me examples
of champions are people like Kenny Roberts, Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna and
Dale Earnhardt. They didn't just show up and have one good race to earn the
number 1 and the right to be called The Champion. They had to race all
season, different venues, changing weather, overcome bad days and through it
all come out on top. To me that is the most indisputable measure of
achievement.
Are there cyclists who embody the same qualities as the examples above?
Certainly. However, since the current picture of that in cycling is to put
it politely, cloudy, I will refrain from listing specific examples.

In conclusion I believe one day events are a poor way of crowning a
Champion. This is especially true at the more amateur levels of bicycle
competition where fitness is seasonal and peoples schedules often cannot be
dedicated to one day in the season.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 8/16/2012 9:43 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

World Championships or Olympic Champions are seasonal series? Championships
are by their nature awards for a single good (or lucky) performance. There
is the BAR, Oregon Cup, TT series, etc. for series awards. There is a
utility in having both.

Mike

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:22
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5 racers
at the Crit Championships this weekend...

And that illustrates the shortcoming with having a "Championship" decided by
a single event. Many (perhaps most) other racing series' of all types crown
their champions based on a seasonal series. It helps bolster regular
attendance, gives spectators more action to follow and recognizes those who
consistently perform at the top of their field.
Personally I've never taken the OBRA Championship events seriously since
they recognize only those who have one good race at a single point in an
otherwise long season.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 8/16/2012 9:12 AM, adam holt wrote:

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5 racers
at the Crit Championships this weekend in Bend... There was one DNF - so
everyone else made the podium!

I've only raced one (very small local) crit in my life, but if I had known
there were only 4 people racing, I'd have thrown on a jersey and headed down
there to try it out!

Adam

_____

From: miker0629@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:54:22 -0700
To: danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org; stewartcycling@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

Well, just don't think you're the only person to think of that! I imagine
that's why there are guys rocking 27mph averages in the novice cat at TTs.
Just sayin'.

Mike

On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Dan Anderson wrote:

Wow, do you get to wear a champ jersey for crushing the field in a beginner
category too? I gotta keep that in mind...

_____

From: Erik Voldengen
To: Stewart Campbell
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

It's an OBRA championship. You are racing to be the best in OBRA in your
category. When you wear a champ jersey, you've earned it by placing first
in a championship event.

And yes, that does mean medals to the top three in each category.

Erik

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Stewart Campbell
wrote:

I know I've been racing long enough to know about this but I don't.

What are championship events? How do I find out which races are champ
races?

For example the OBRA hillclimb this Sunday states "Medals are awarded to
OBRA Champions." Does that mean medals to the top 3 in each category?

What does it mean to wear a champ jersey? I also just say a posting about
ordering champ bibs?

Maybe post your response publically so that if others have the same
questions they will be informed too.

Thanks OBRA land.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Ron Frerichs

2012-08-16

Rick,

Again...OBRA already has you covered.

If you're not someone who values the achievements of Olympic or World Championship atheletes, who get one chance to prove they are the best, and deliver; but would rather see someone be consistently good; then consider the BAR or Oregon Cup winners as your champions.

I see them as two separate things...both have value, both deserve recognition, and both belong in OBRA.

I have my own ideas for some changes to the championships that don't involve a completely different format. But, before we go too far down the road of overhauling them...

Crit participation:
2012 Bend - 180
2011 Bend - 173
2010 Albany - 238
2009 Albany - 297
2008 Gresham - 241
2007 Gresham - 279

First...yes, I spent too much time on this. Second...maybe the simple answer is location.

Ron

Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:02:24 -0700
From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
To: mike.murray@obra.org
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

I don't depute that there is utility in different methods of recognition. It comes down to one's definition of what makes a "Champion" since technically either single events or series have been historically used. For me examples of champions are people like Kenny Roberts, Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna and Dale Earnhardt. They didn't just show up and have one good race to earn the number 1 and the right to be called The Champion. They had to race all season, different venues, changing weather, overcome bad days and through it all come out on top. To me that is the most indisputable measure of achievement.
Are there cyclists who embody the same qualities as the examples above? Certainly. However, since the current picture of that in cycling is to put it politely, cloudy, I will refrain from listing specific examples.

In conclusion I believe one day events are a poor way of crowning a Champion. This is especially true at the more amateur levels of bicycle competition where fitness is seasonal and peoples schedules often cannot be dedicated to one day in the season.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 8/16/2012 9:43 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

World Championships or Olympic Champions are seasonal series? Championships are by their nature awards for a single good (or lucky) performance. There is the BAR, Oregon Cup, TT series, etc. for series awards. There is a utility in having both.

Mike

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:22
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this weekend...

And that illustrates the shortcoming with having a "Championship" decided by a single event. Many (perhaps most) other racing series' of all types crown their champions based on a seasonal series. It helps bolster regular attendance, gives spectators more action to follow and recognizes those who consistently perform at the top of their field.
Personally I've never taken the OBRA Championship events seriously since they recognize only those who have one good race at a single point in an otherwise long season.

Rick JohnsonBend Oregon * * * This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
On 8/16/2012 9:12 AM, adam holt wrote:

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this weekend in Bend... There was one DNF - so everyone else made the podium!

I've only raced one (very small local) crit in my life, but if I had known there were only 4 people racing, I'd have thrown on a jersey and headed down there to try it out!

Adam

From: miker0629@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:54:22 -0700
To: danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org; stewartcycling@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

Well, just don't think you're the only person to think of that! I imagine that's why there are guys rocking 27mph averages in the novice cat at TTs. Just sayin'.

Mike

On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Dan Anderson wrote:

Wow, do you get to wear a champ jersey for crushing the field in a beginner category too? I gotta keep that in mind...

From: Erik Voldengen
To: Stewart Campbell
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

It's an OBRA championship. You are racing to be the best in OBRA in your category. When you wear a champ jersey, you've earned it by placing first in a championship event.

And yes, that does mean medals to the top three in each category.

Erik

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote:
I know I've been racing long enough to know about this but I don't.

What are championship events? How do I find out which races are champ races?

For example the OBRA hillclimb this Sunday states "Medals are awarded to OBRA Champions." Does that mean medals to the top 3 in each category?

What does it mean to wear a champ jersey? I also just say a posting about ordering champ bibs?

Maybe post your response publically so that if others have the same questions they will be informed too.

Thanks OBRA land.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Rick Johnson

2012-08-16

I don't think that's any more valid than recognizing "who raced best
earliest (or latest) in the season" or "who raced best near Portland".
Is not the most basic definition of a champion "one who stands out above
all others"? Then how can the title of champion have any meaning if the
vast majority of people haven't even been in the competition? The
current status that an OBRA Champion is the best simply because they
beat a handful of people in one race strikes me as almost ridiculous.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 8/16/2012 11:11 AM, Sarah Tisdale wrote:
> The common saying is that "BAR is won in the car." This may not be
> true in large BAR categories, but for most womens/masters categories,
> BAR is largely "who raced-most" prize.
>
> Do we want "OBRA Champs is won in the car" too?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Rick Johnson
> > wrote:
>
> I don't depute that there is utility in different methods of
> recognition. It comes down to one's definition of what makes a
> "Champion" since technically either single events or series have
> been historically used. For me examples of champions are people
> like Kenny Roberts, Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna and Dale
> Earnhardt. They didn't just show up and have one good race to earn
> the number 1 and the right to be called The Champion. They had to
> race all season, different venues, changing weather, overcome bad
> days and through it all come out on top. To me that is the most
> indisputable measure of achievement.
> Are there cyclists who embody the same qualities as the examples
> above? Certainly. However, since the current picture of that in
> cycling is to put it politely, cloudy, I will refrain from listing
> specific examples.
>
> In conclusion I believe one day events are a poor way of crowning
> a Champion. This is especially true at the more amateur levels of
> bicycle competition where fitness is seasonal and peoples
> schedules often cannot be dedicated to one day in the season.
>
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>
> On 8/16/2012 9:43 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> World Championships or Olympic Champions are seasonal series?
>> Championships are by their nature awards for a single good (or
>> lucky) performance. There is the BAR, Oregon Cup, TT series,
>> etc. for series awards. There is a utility in having both.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> *From:*obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>>
>> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On Behalf Of *Rick Johnson
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:22
>> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?
>>
>> On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were
>> only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this
>> weekend...
>>
>>
>> And that illustrates the shortcoming with having a "Championship"
>> decided by a single event. Many (perhaps most) other racing
>> series' of all types crown their champions based on a seasonal
>> series. It helps bolster regular attendance, gives spectators
>> more action to follow and recognizes those who consistently
>> perform at the top of their field.
>> Personally I've never taken the OBRA Championship events
>> seriously since they recognize only those who have one good race
>> at a single point in an otherwise long season.
>>
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend Oregon
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>>
>>
>> On 8/16/2012 9:12 AM, adam holt wrote:
>>
>> On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were
>> only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this
>> weekend in Bend... There was one DNF - so everyone else made
>> the podium!
>>
>> I've only raced one (very small local) crit in my life, but
>> if I had known there were only 4 people racing, I'd have
>> thrown on a jersey and headed down there to try it out!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: miker0629@yahoo.com
>> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:54:22 -0700
>> To: danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com
>> CC: obra@list.obra.org ;
>> stewartcycling@yahoo.com
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?
>>
>> Well, just don't think you're the only person to think of
>> that! I imagine that's why there are guys rocking 27mph
>> averages in the novice cat at TTs. Just sayin'.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Dan Anderson
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Wow, do you get to wear a champ jersey for crushing the
>> field in a beginner category too? I gotta keep that in
>> mind...
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*Erik Voldengen > >
>> *To:* Stewart Campbell > >
>> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:28 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?
>>
>> It's an OBRA championship. You are racing to be the best
>> in OBRA in your category. When you wear a champ jersey,
>> you've earned it by placing first in a championship event.
>>
>> And yes, that does mean medals to the top three in each
>> category.
>>
>> Erik
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Stewart Campbell
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> I know I've been racing long enough to know about this
>> but I don't.
>>
>> What are championship events? How do I find out which
>> races are champ races?
>>
>> For example the OBRA hillclimb this Sunday states "Medals
>> are awarded to OBRA Champions." Does that mean medals to
>> the top 3 in each category?
>>
>> What does it mean to wear a champ jersey? I also just
>> say a posting about ordering champ bibs?
>>
>> Maybe post your response publically so that if others
>> have the same questions they will be informed too.
>>
>> Thanks OBRA land.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing
>> list obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> OBRA mailing list
>>
>> obra@list.obra.org
>>
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>
>> Unsubscribe:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

Sarah Tisdale

2012-08-16

The common saying is that "BAR is won in the car." This may not be true in
large BAR categories, but for most womens/masters categories, BAR is
largely "who raced-most" prize.

Do we want "OBRA Champs is won in the car" too?

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Rick Johnson wrote:

> I don't depute that there is utility in different methods of
> recognition. It comes down to one's definition of what makes a "Champion"
> since technically either single events or series have been historically
> used. For me examples of champions are people like Kenny Roberts, Mario
> Andretti, Ayrton Senna and Dale Earnhardt. They didn't just show up and
> have one good race to earn the number 1 and the right to be called The
> Champion. They had to race all season, different venues, changing weather,
> overcome bad days and through it all come out on top. To me that is the
> most indisputable measure of achievement.
> Are there cyclists who embody the same qualities as the examples above?
> Certainly. However, since the current picture of that in cycling is to put
> it politely, cloudy, I will refrain from listing specific examples.
>
> In conclusion I believe one day events are a poor way of crowning a
> Champion. This is especially true at the more amateur levels of bicycle
> competition where fitness is seasonal and peoples schedules often cannot be
> dedicated to one day in the season.
>
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>
>
> On 8/16/2012 9:43 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>
> World Championships or Olympic Champions are seasonal series?
> Championships are by their nature awards for a single good (or lucky)
> performance. There is the BAR, Oregon Cup, TT series, etc. for series
> awards. There is a utility in having both.****
>
> ** **
>
> Mike****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Rick Johnson
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:22
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?****
>
> ** **
>
> On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5
> racers at the Crit Championships this weekend...****
>
>
> And that illustrates the shortcoming with having a "Championship" decided
> by a single event. Many (perhaps most) other racing series' of all types
> crown their champions based on a seasonal series. It helps bolster regular
> attendance, gives spectators more action to follow and recognizes those who
> consistently perform at the top of their field.
> Personally I've never taken the OBRA Championship events seriously since
> they recognize only those who have one good race at a single point in an
> otherwise long season.
>
>
> ****
>
> Rick Johnson****
>
> Bend Oregon****
>
> ** **
>
> * * *****
>
> ** **
>
> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions****
>
> ** **
>
> On 8/16/2012 9:12 AM, adam holt wrote:****
>
> On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5
> racers at the Crit Championships this weekend in Bend... There was one DNF
> - so everyone else made the podium!
>
> I've only raced one (very small local) crit in my life, but if I had known
> there were only 4 people racing, I'd have thrown on a jersey and headed
> down there to try it out!
>
> Adam
> ****
> ------------------------------
>
> From: miker0629@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:54:22 -0700
> To: danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org; stewartcycling@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?****
>
> Well, just don't think you're the only person to think of that! I imagine
> that's why there are guys rocking 27mph averages in the novice cat at TTs.
> Just sayin'. ****
>
>
> Mike****
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Dan Anderson wrote:
> ****
>
> Wow, do you get to wear a champ jersey for crushing the field in a
> beginner category too? I gotta keep that in mind...****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Erik Voldengen
> *To:* Stewart Campbell
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:28 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?****
>
> ** **
>
> It's an OBRA championship. You are racing to be the best in OBRA in your
> category. When you wear a champ jersey, you've earned it by placing first
> in a championship event.
>
> And yes, that does mean medals to the top three in each category.
>
> Erik
>
> ****
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Stewart Campbell <
> stewartcycling@yahoo.com> wrote:****
>
> I know I've been racing long enough to know about this but I don't.
>
> What are championship events? How do I find out which races are champ
> races?
>
> For example the OBRA hillclimb this Sunday states "Medals are awarded to
> OBRA Champions." Does that mean medals to the top 3 in each category?
>
> What does it mean to wear a champ jersey? I also just say a posting about
> ordering champ bibs?
>
> Maybe post your response publically so that if others have the same
> questions they will be informed too.
>
> Thanks OBRA land.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org****
>
> ** **
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org****
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org****
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________****
>
> OBRA mailing list****
>
> obra@list.obra.org****
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra****
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org****
>
> ** **
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Rick Johnson

2012-08-16

I don't depute that there is utility in different methods of
recognition. It comes down to one's definition of what makes a
"Champion" since technically either single events or series have been
historically used. For me examples of champions are people like Kenny
Roberts, Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna and Dale Earnhardt. They didn't
just show up and have one good race to earn the number 1 and the right
to be called The Champion. They had to race all season, different
venues, changing weather, overcome bad days and through it all come out
on top. To me that is the most indisputable measure of achievement.
Are there cyclists who embody the same qualities as the examples above?
Certainly. However, since the current picture of that in cycling is to
put it politely, cloudy, I will refrain from listing specific examples.

In conclusion I believe one day events are a poor way of crowning a
Champion. This is especially true at the more amateur levels of bicycle
competition where fitness is seasonal and peoples schedules often cannot
be dedicated to one day in the season.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions

On 8/16/2012 9:43 AM, Mike Murray wrote:
>
> World Championships or Olympic Champions are seasonal series?
> Championships are by their nature awards for a single good (or lucky)
> performance. There is the BAR, Oregon Cup, TT series, etc. for series
> awards. There is a utility in having both.
>
> Mike
>
> *From:*obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Rick Johnson
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:22
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?
>
> On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were
> only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this weekend...
>
>
> And that illustrates the shortcoming with having a "Championship"
> decided by a single event. Many (perhaps most) other racing series' of
> all types crown their champions based on a seasonal series. It helps
> bolster regular attendance, gives spectators more action to follow and
> recognizes those who consistently perform at the top of their field.
> Personally I've never taken the OBRA Championship events seriously
> since they recognize only those who have one good race at a single
> point in an otherwise long season.
>
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions
>
>
> On 8/16/2012 9:12 AM, adam holt wrote:
>
> On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were
> only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this
> weekend in Bend... There was one DNF - so everyone else made the
> podium!
>
> I've only raced one (very small local) crit in my life, but if I
> had known there were only 4 people racing, I'd have thrown on a
> jersey and headed down there to try it out!
>
> Adam
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: miker0629@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:54:22 -0700
> To: danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org ;
> stewartcycling@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?
>
> Well, just don't think you're the only person to think of that! I
> imagine that's why there are guys rocking 27mph averages in the
> novice cat at TTs. Just sayin'.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Dan Anderson > wrote:
>
> Wow, do you get to wear a champ jersey for crushing the field
> in a beginner category too? I gotta keep that in mind...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Erik Voldengen >
> *To:* Stewart Campbell >
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:28 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?
>
> It's an OBRA championship. You are racing to be the best in
> OBRA in your category. When you wear a champ jersey, you've
> earned it by placing first in a championship event.
>
> And yes, that does mean medals to the top three in each category.
>
> Erik
>
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Stewart Campbell
> >
> wrote:
>
> I know I've been racing long enough to know about this but I
> don't.
>
> What are championship events? How do I find out which races
> are champ races?
>
> For example the OBRA hillclimb this Sunday states "Medals are
> awarded to OBRA Champions." Does that mean medals to the top
> 3 in each category?
>
> What does it mean to wear a champ jersey? I also just say a
> posting about ordering champ bibs?
>
> Maybe post your response publically so that if others have the
> same questions they will be informed too.
>
> Thanks OBRA land.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rondot@spiritone.com

2012-08-16

BUT.......
OBRA championship medals could be awarded (for example) for Uphill TT based on finishes in the annual ones that take place every year (and throw one out so everyone gets a gimme for not traveling etc). I do not know them all, but the one at Marys Peak, Ouch, one in Ashland?, the Timberline one, the new one Sellwood did and whatever else is out there (it might even help create some new ones). Keep points and at the final race on schedule hand out the medals.

Same could be done for other types of racing. Regular TT, Crit., Road, even different mtb disciplines (Ripley does that with XC...as in he has that figured out!). Just track the results and at last event of that discipline, do the awards. It would still be possible to even choose one race in each discipline as some sort of OBRA champ race to maybe encourage attendance....and offer double points etc.

I do think a time for recognition is very good for all the racers as it gives winners and their peers a chance to show appreciation. It is better for the human spirit than getting something in the mail. Even though it was just for that one race day at Short Track Champs, the podium time was full of the love.

Kind of like the Oregon Cup for all disciplines. The medal are worth the cost!

All this FUN and OBRA could still do the BAR Party every winter for those wanting hot food, warm location and chance to tell Tall Racing Tales.
Just thinkin.
ronnie

From: Mike Murray
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 9:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

World Championships or Olympic Champions are seasonal series? Championships are by their nature awards for a single good (or lucky) performance. There is the BAR, Oregon Cup, TT series, etc. for series awards. There is a utility in having both.

Mike

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:22
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this weekend...

And that illustrates the shortcoming with having a "Championship" decided by a single event. Many (perhaps most) other racing series' of all types crown their champions based on a seasonal series. It helps bolster regular attendance, gives spectators more action to follow and recognizes those who consistently perform at the top of their field.
Personally I've never taken the OBRA Championship events seriously since they recognize only those who have one good race at a single point in an otherwise long season.

Rick JohnsonBend Oregon * * * This news has been sanitized for your preconceptions On 8/16/2012 9:12 AM, adam holt wrote:

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there were only four Men's Cat 5 racers at the Crit Championships this weekend in Bend... There was one DNF - so everyone else made the podium!

I've only raced one (very small local) crit in my life, but if I had known there were only 4 people racing, I'd have thrown on a jersey and headed down there to try it out!

Adam

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: miker0629@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:54:22 -0700
To: danfrisbeeman@yahoo.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org; stewartcycling@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

Well, just don't think you're the only person to think of that! I imagine that's why there are guys rocking 27mph averages in the novice cat at TTs. Just sayin'.

Mike

On Aug 16, 2012, at 7:57 AM, Dan Anderson wrote:

Wow, do you get to wear a champ jersey for crushing the field in a beginner category too? I gotta keep that in mind...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Erik Voldengen
To: Stewart Campbell
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] What are Championship races?

It's an OBRA championship. You are racing to be the best in OBRA in your category. When you wear a champ jersey, you've earned it by placing first in a championship event.

And yes, that does mean medals to the top three in each category.

Erik

On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Stewart Campbell wrote: