rondot@spiritone.com
You rock naturally Flo!
ron
From: Leibowitz, Flo
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 11:18 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lance, sorta
"...Last year I got an email from a racer telling me how hard it was for him to compete because he had the testosterone levels of an old woman. So he was working with his doctor to remedy this with medication. My feeling regarding that is do what you do....but tell your fellow racers.........especially if you are beating them. Or he could race like an old woman and live with it.
..Ron, someone should tell this guy to come and throw down with us old women. Masters 50? 60+ maybe? Bring it on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of rondot@spiritone.com [rondot@spiritone.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:48 AM
To: Josh Spivey; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lance
OBRA.......this is not a thread any longer. It has officially become a Lance Quilt.
In true Debbie Downer fashion....
Folks. Lance is busted (as well as others). If his Cancer Foundation does and continues to help people that is very good. None of us are angels and I think busting people for drug use in competition is good for sports going forward. Lance and cheating was on the radar from his first tour win. We really should move on, let him find his place (trust me he will not have to worry about making a living).
If you want to use drugs then go ahead and use them. If you want to race that way it is your choice. My drug of choice is caffeine in the form of a cup of tea or coffee and maybe a Cliffshot or blocks. Pretty radical. But it still does not counteract the 40mg of Pravastatin I am taking each day (twice what I was taking this time last year). So I do what I can do without cheating my fellow racers. In college I smoked dope and played intramural basketball. It was fun watching the ball whiz around, but not so much when it would hit my face. Lesson learned long ago.
Last year I got an email from a racer telling me how hard it was for him to compete because he had the testosterone levels of an old woman. So he was working with his doctor to remedy this with medication. My feeling regarding that is do what you do....but tell your fellow racers.........especially if you are beating them. Or he could race like an old woman and live with it.
The drugs these pros at the level Lance raced were cheating and making a great deal of money by doing so. They were making a much better living because of their cheating than the regular Joe.
I think the publicity of the sanctions will impact the racers use for a time, but greed will again cause more doping. Where it goes from here we will get to see on all our electronic and print media. More drama to come.
Do the Pro Cross racers dope? How many of them have been busted? I am not kidding, just have not heard of any busts. Maybe no need because of short duration?
ron
From: Josh Spivey
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:03 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lance
How many people on this list have taken antihistamines within a few days of a race? Cheating.
Or how many take albuterol for asthma? Take a couple of extra puffs? Cheating.
Nicotine and caffeine? Borderline cheating according to USADA
Smoked a little weed lately? Cheating.
Stuck a Hemorrhoid suppository up your ass with a little hydrocortisone in it? Cheating.
Had a vicodin left over from that time you broke your collarbone, but now you just have a gnarly headache? Cheating.
There are just too many ways to cheat and many of them are nearly impossible to monitor for everyone all the time. I realize this is quite a long way from EPO and HGH, but hopefully the point isnt lost. You dont get caught, you dont get dinged.
What if I started telling people that I know the winner of some PIR race smoked weed all the time when he won 5 years ago. Tell me thats not vindictive, counter-productive behavior aimed at smearing somebody when it makes little to no difference to what is happening at PIR right now.
On 8/29/12 9:47 AM, "Eric" wrote:
Look at Hinault in 1979! That year, the next-to-last stage finished in a bunch sprint in a suburb of Paris. Hinault led out the sprint and won it, an incredible finish! Third place overall was over 20 minutes down.
Did he have chemical help? Kind of super-human!
== Eric
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: wlmailhtml:obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of wlmailhtml:jeff@ultrafreaks.net
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:32 AM
To: Steve Brown; wlmailhtml:jb24817@gmail.com
Cc: wlmailhtml:obra@list.obra.org; dacrizzow
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Lance
Well then let's line up The Badger, The Cannibal, LeMond, etc, and we'll have to exhume Laurent, Marco and others. Take core samples and analyze them, question their friends and competitors, then burn their effigies when we find something questionable. Wouldn't be fair to be selective in our campaign. Unfortunately that means we'll also have to test all the second place winners too... just in case.
If USADA is doing what they were created to do, then I think it's misguided. I think Lance bowed out of the fight because his team knows that the public has tired of the discussion and largely supports him as a hero regardless.
I don't condone doping in any sport, nor do I tolerate cheaters, but let's fix things by looking forward.
-j
On August 29, 2012 at 12:07 PM J Bravard wrote:
> USADA is doing what they were created to do and what they have done in
> the past. Armstrong is not being treated differently than BALCO or
> Marion Jones, who, not surprisingly, also stood behind all her "clean"
> doping control tests until she finally admitted guilt. The IOC and UCI
> have both signed on to WADA/USADA oversight for doping, just like
> IAAF/USATF (track & field).
>
> Despite widespread misconceptions, hearsay testimony IS admissible as
> evidence in our judicial system under many circumstances. It's
> certainly plausible that one of the reasons Lance bowed out of the
> fight (while still proclaiming his innocence) is that the testimony,
> under oath, in arbitration hearings could have been enough to re-open
> the criminal case.
>
> USADA is doing their job and I hope this case has a deterrent effect
> going forward.
>
>
> On Aug 29, 2012, at 6:48 AM, Steve Brown wrote:
>
> > The bigger question is how deep and how far back does this go. Big Mig, The Badger, The Cannibal. USADA has gone too far. They have put themselves in front of the sport with hearsay testimony and lack of direct evidence with the bar lower than our judicial system would allow.
> > That is why the Fed's had to drop their case. USADA has become the performer not the referee.
> >
> >
> > Steve Brown
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Aug 29, 2012, at 8:34 AM, dacrizzow wrote:
> >
> >> sorry, what lance does (or doesn't) do for cancer has nothing to do with wether he doped or not. two separate subjects and should be treated as such. don't want to start a whole thread about this but there's been plenty uncovered on his foundation on how much REALLY gets accounted for
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> wlmailhtml:obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: wlmailhtml:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > wlmailhtml:obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: wlmailhtml:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> wlmailhtml:obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: wlmailhtml:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
wlmailhtml:obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: wlmailhtml:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org