joec@aracnet.com

AMEN!

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 22:20:02 -0700, Josh LeBus
wrote:
> Stop typing and go ride a bike!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 31, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Mike wrote:
>
>> Josh,
>>
>> Since we're trading links to interesting reads, here's some reporting from Cycling News on your question:
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/amgens-unlikely-partnership-with-cycling
>>
>> While Amgen's science folks seem to have initially (naively?) been a bit blind-sided by the level of EPO abuse, they seem to have used their sponsorship position to address anti-doping as well as their original target -- Cancer. Indeed, many pro cyclists themselves were subsequently blind-sided when they thought they could use CERA (one of EPO's successors) with impunity -- until it became clear that Roche actually HELPED the authorities develop a test on the sly.
>>
>> And the beat goes on...
>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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Josh LeBus

Stop typing and go ride a bike!

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 31, 2012, at 6:22 PM, Mike wrote:

> Josh,
>
> Since we're trading links to interesting reads, here's some reporting from Cycling News on your question:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/amgens-unlikely-partnership-with-cycling
>
> While Amgen's science folks seem to have initially (naively?) been a bit blind-sided by the level of EPO abuse, they seem to have used their sponsorship position to address anti-doping as well as their original target -- Cancer. Indeed, many pro cyclists themselves were subsequently blind-sided when they thought they could use CERA (one of EPO's successors) with impunity -- until it became clear that Roche actually HELPED the authorities develop a test on the sly.
>
> And the beat goes on...
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike

Josh,

Since we're trading links to interesting reads, here's some reporting from Cycling News on your question:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/amgens-unlikely-partnership-with-cycling

While Amgen's science folks seem to have initially (naively?) been a bit blind-sided by the level of EPO abuse, they seem to have used their sponsorship position to address anti-doping as well as their original target -- Cancer. Indeed, many pro cyclists themselves were subsequently blind-sided when they thought they could use CERA (one of EPO's successors) with impunity -- until it became clear that Roche actually HELPED the authorities develop a test on the sly.

And the beat goes on...

Josh Spivey

I think the point is more that athletes should not be asked to sign
something that gives away basic rights like this. I highly doubt that there
is language in the contract that explicitly states that they can subpoena
and dig dirt on witnesses who have nothing to do with cycling and may in
fact be family members and friends. Nor would it state that they can engage
in search and seizure without probable cause or prevent them from seeing
evidence against them. Those things may be implicit, but no budding
professional cyclist is going to have access to a lawyer while signing their
first pro contract.

People sign contracts all the time that are worded an way that screws the
signer later. Because a newly involved party may decide to find ways to poke
holes in it and take advantage of its vagueness. That doesn't make it
justifiable, it just makes it possible.

If I sign a homeowners contract and then some new HOA leader decides to
start giving me shit for not pulling the single weed on my lawn because the
contract says "must keep lawn in good condition", I'm going to be pissed. If
the contract doesn't say "must keep every weed off the lawn at all times",
it's not the same thing.

I also just discovered that EPO is manufactured by and only by AMGEN!!!
WTF???? I always wondered why a drug company would want to sponsor a major
international cycling event.

Josh

On 8/31/12 3:34 PM, "Mike" wrote:

> Hi Chipp,
>
> Thanks for the link to the Outside Online piece:
>
> http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/celebrities/Lance-Armstrong-Vic
> tim.html
>
> I had missed it back in July and it unearths plenty of additional subtlety in
> the fascinating Lance drama.
>
> I've stopped gnashing my teeth over the Lance Epic and just embraced all the
> detail and nuances -- it's such a fascinating story for our times and would
> lend itself to a great satirical treatment -- something along the lines of
> "Dr. Strangelove" -- you know, "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The
> Dope".
>
> Two things tho:
>
> 1) I couldn't help noticing that there's one very important point missing from
> your favorite paragraph in the article.
>
> As the author points out earlier in the piece, people who earn a living in
> sports governed by the International Convention Against Doping in Sport Code
> have no power to negotiate terms. "If you want to work, you have to agree to
> the code," since Congress long ago rejected the notion of Olympics-affiliated
> sport as "commercial entertainment," like "Hollywood." Lance and all other pro
> cyclists may initially sign on seeking fame and fortune, but they're also
> "tacitly agreeing to waive certain rights promised to (them) under the
> Constitution... like (protection) from searches and seizures without probable
> cause... and (the) right to be confronted with witnesses and have access to
> evidence used against (them)."
>
> So... what the author then fails to include in your favorite paragraph is the
> set-up: the actions of the homeowner's association and the cops are perfectly
> legitimate if you had previously signed an "International Convention Against
> Drug Dealing in Housing Developments Code" waiver along with payment of your
> annual dues.
>
> Indeed, Lance profited from his association with cycling, and it now appears
> he must pay the piper back.
>
> Whatever your perspective on Lance, one thing shocks us all: the irreversible
> loss of his Mythic Status. We can no longer celebrate Teflon Lance like we do
> D.B. Cooper.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike

Hi Chipp,

Thanks for the link to the Outside Online piece:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/celebrities/Lance-Armstrong-Victim.html

I had missed it back in July and it unearths plenty of additional subtlety in the fascinating Lance drama.

I've stopped gnashing my teeth over the Lance Epic and just embraced all the detail and nuances -- it's such a fascinating story for our times and would lend itself to a great satirical treatment -- something along the lines of "Dr. Strangelove" -- you know, "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Dope".

Two things tho:

1) I couldn't help noticing that there's one very important point missing from your favorite paragraph in the article.

As the author points out earlier in the piece, people who earn a living in sports governed by the International Convention Against Doping in Sport Code have no power to negotiate terms. "If you want to work, you have to agree to the code," since Congress long ago rejected the notion of Olympics-affiliated sport as "commercial entertainment," like "Hollywood." Lance and all other pro cyclists may initially sign on seeking fame and fortune, but they're also "tacitly agreeing to waive certain rights promised to (them) under the Constitution... like (protection) from searches and seizures without probable cause... and (the) right to be confronted with witnesses and have access to evidence used against (them)."

So... what the author then fails to include in your favorite paragraph is the set-up: the actions of the homeowner's association and the cops are perfectly legitimate if you had previously signed an "International Convention Against Drug Dealing in Housing Developments Code" waiver along with payment of your annual dues.

Indeed, Lance profited from his association with cycling, and it now appears he must pay the piper back.

Whatever your perspective on Lance, one thing shocks us all: the irreversible loss of his Mythic Status. We can no longer celebrate Teflon Lance like we do D.B. Cooper.

Josh Spivey

I couldn't agree more that it is a management issue. If you haven't seen
this presentation by Vaughters at TED Bermuda, you should watch it. I take
it with a grain of salt because he does come off as being very
"holier-than-thou". But he is clear about "ever winner in the mid 90's was
doping".

http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxBermuda-Jonathan-Vaughters

On 8/31/12 2:00 PM, "Chipp" wrote:

> Agreed on that!Sorry about the link not coming through. If someone can re-post
> it in true link form that'd be cool. ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mohair"
> To: "OBRA"
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] VERY interesting article
>
>
>>
>> This is one of the best articles on the doping scandals I've read.
>>
>> One of the important points that has not been brought out by the popular
>> press is this: It is a management issue. An athletic coach is judged by
>> their won/loss record. The pressure to win is tremendous. The athletes
>> become pawns in a very serious game. How many remember the East German
>> women's swimmers that were being given massive amounts of Performance
>> Enhancing Drugs? I read somewhere a few years ago that there long-term study
>> was being done to get an idea of how much damage the drugging had caused.
>>
>> In many ways I am very glad that I was a mediocre (at best) club racer and
>> didn't have to face the pressures that the elite riders have to deal with.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Chipp

Agreed on that!Sorry about the link not coming through. If someone can re-post it in true link form that'd be cool. ----- Original Message -----
From: "mohair"
To: "OBRA"
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] VERY interesting article

>
> This is one of the best articles on the doping scandals I've read.
>
> One of the important points that has not been brought out by the popular press is this: It is a management issue. An athletic coach is judged by their won/loss record. The pressure to win is tremendous. The athletes become pawns in a very serious game. How many remember the East German women's swimmers that were being given massive amounts of Performance Enhancing Drugs? I read somewhere a few years ago that there long-term study was being done to get an idea of how much damage the drugging had caused.
>
> In many ways I am very glad that I was a mediocre (at best) club racer and didn't have to face the pressures that the elite riders have to deal with.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

mohair

This is one of the best articles on the doping scandals I've read.

One of the important points that has not been brought out by the popular press is this: It is a management issue. An athletic coach is judged by their won/loss record. The pressure to win is tremendous. The athletes become pawns in a very serious game. How many remember the East German women's swimmers that were being given massive amounts of Performance Enhancing Drugs? I read somewhere a few years ago that there long-term study was being done to get an idea of how much damage the drugging had caused.

In many ways I am very glad that I was a mediocre (at best) club racer and didn't have to face the pressures that the elite riders have to deal with.

Chipp

While there is some eye-popping facts in this excellent article, for me it's the fourth paragraph from the end that sums up what I've been saying for some time about USADA et al.http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/celebrities/Lance-Armstrong-Victim.html?page=all