Thank you for input re: sand

Todd Mobley

2012-09-12

Thanks all...that's the kind of stuff I was looking for. I also realized
that I didn't give my two cents, even if Randy was the only one that asked
for it. Yes on the sand! I raced Het Meer last year (but missed last
weekend) and that is one of the things that set it apart from all of the
other races. I also made the Canby race at Pat's Acres last year and loved
the course. I say bring the sand in Canby, what a great venue that provides
a BIG variety in available terrain.

-Todd

--
Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
Principal
Lancaster Engineering
(503) 248-0313 phone
(503) 248-9251 fax

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Josh Spivey wrote:

> I doubt its a conspiracy of some kind. Talking about doping seems just
> as much a race-worthy subject as course design.
>
> I like the sand, as long as it can be ridden by at least somebody. Even if
> its just one person, it gives an advantage to that person. Watching Nys
> jam through sand while others are running it certainly makes for fun times.
>
> I didnt ride the sand this weekend because the little drop was too
> difficult for me to manage. But it wasnt for everybody and it made for
> some fun. I did get passed a few times from people who managed it.
>
> The one downside I could see is that the earliest racers are the most
> inexperienced, and the sand is more difficult to ride. Im not as
> experienced as pretty much everybody else on this list, but when I watch
> Belgian races, the sand ruts out at a certain point and makes it much
> faster to ride. You still need the skill to hit the rut, but its not like
> youre dropping into a cat box. Maybe an alternate for beginners? I was
> scared shizzless last year as a beginner when I saw that sand.
>
> I say keep the sand. Well all learn to ride it eventually.
>
>
> On 9/11/12 1:49 PM, "Todd Mobley" wrote:
>
> Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the
> sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like
> something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel
> about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping
> stuff.
>
> Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone
> afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?
>
> -Todd
>
> --
> Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
> Principal
> Lancaster Engineering
> (503) 248-0313 phone
> (503) 248-9251 fax
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:
>
> Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no
> sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent
> input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in
> your vote. Thank you!
>
> Sincerely,
> Randy Word
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra <
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
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Josh Spivey

2012-09-11

I doubt its a conspiracy of some kind. Talking about doping seems just as
much a race-worthy subject as course design.

I like the sand, as long as it can be ridden by at least somebody. Even if
its just one person, it gives an advantage to that person. Watching Nys jam
through sand while others are running it certainly makes for fun times.

I didnt ride the sand this weekend because the little drop was too
difficult for me to manage. But it wasnt for everybody and it made for some
fun. I did get passed a few times from people who managed it.

The one downside I could see is that the earliest racers are the most
inexperienced, and the sand is more difficult to ride. Im not as
experienced as pretty much everybody else on this list, but when I watch
Belgian races, the sand ruts out at a certain point and makes it much faster
to ride. You still need the skill to hit the rut, but its not like youre
dropping into a cat box. Maybe an alternate for beginners? I was scared
shizzless last year as a beginner when I saw that sand.

I say keep the sand. Well all learn to ride it eventually.

On 9/11/12 1:49 PM, "Todd Mobley" wrote:

> Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the sand/no
> sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like something very
> much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel about it. I'd
> much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping stuff.
>
> Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone
> afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?
>
> -Todd
>
> --
> Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
> Principal
> Lancaster Engineering
> (503) 248-0313 phone
> (503) 248-9251 fax
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:
>> Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no sand
>> at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent input. The
>> "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in your vote.
>> Thank you!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Randy Word
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Dan Anderson

2012-09-11

Eh, sand is okay for a couple of races a year, but I don't need it to make a dry race worthwhile. Sometimes it's nice not to have to spend so much time cleaning my bike afterwards!

________________________________
From: Todd Mobley
To: Randy Word
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Thank you for input re: sand

Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping stuff.

Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?

-Todd

--
Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
Principal
Lancaster Engineering
(503) 248-0313 phone
(503) 248-9251 fax

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:

Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in your vote. Thank you!
>
>Sincerely,
>Randy Word
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


=?utf-8?B?Sm9uLnJhZ3NkYWxlQGNvbWNhc3QubmV0?=

2012-09-11

SNOW!!!!!!! :-)

T-Mobile. Americas First Nationwide 4G Network

----- Reply message -----
From: "Justin Serna"
To: "Todd Mobley" , "Randy Word"
Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Thank you for input re: sand
Date: Tue, Sep 11, 2012 3:16 pm
SAND!!! CycleSoles.comJustin J. SernaSales & Marketing Mgr.900 SE Wilson Ave., Suite F
Bend, Oregon 97702Cell.
502.209.7565office. 541.647.1108

From: Todd Mobley
To: Randy Word
Cc: obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Thank you for input re: sand

Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping stuff.

Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?
-Todd--
Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE

Principal
Lancaster Engineering
(503) 248-0313 phone
(503) 248-9251 fax

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:

Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in your vote. Thank you!

Sincerely,

Randy Word

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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rondot@spiritone.com

2012-09-11

All,
You do have a good point. Curiosity about things like this are normal.
I think responses to questions on the list get sent to individual who asked and to the list depending on who responds. Often when a question like Randy asked gets responses.....he will gather the info, then post on the list... the abridged version so as not to turn it into a quilt like the lance trilogy.
For his question the important aspect is the responses he gets and then what he (as the promoter) feels he can actually do with responses. The list can get way out of hand (telling promoters what they should or should not do from a keyboard) as we all know.
I did respond to Randy and I told him that in my opinion the sand addition might be good if the course was dry like last year and pretty much the same layout. On the other hand, if it was a really wet period, that course might be pretty nasty with very boggy areas as the general elevation is close to the river.
Whatever he decides, it will be the same for all who ride it.
just my opinion.
ronnie

From: Brooke Hoyer
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:39 PM
To: Todd Mobley
Cc: obra@list.obra.org ; Randy Word
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Thank you for input re: sand

I agree with Todd.

And why no love for the sand? PDX area cross races at the end of the dry season need something extra to make them special. I'm not sure about the Canby venue and proposed course, but sand makes for a great feature. Maybe it makes an extra dismount a lap -- I'd rather deep sand than some barriers. In my opinion, a CX race should get the rider off the bike at least three times a lap and if that can be done without *any* barriers, then awesome.

At Het Meer, I rode on to the beach every lap, and "ran" off the beach every lap. It was about as fast, depending on foot speed and remount technique to run on to the the beach.

Disclaimer: I race SS so I'm not quite as worried about sand grinding my drivetrain as some of those dainty 10 and 11 speed devotees.

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Todd Mobley wrote:

Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping stuff.

Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?

-Todd

--
Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
Principal
Lancaster Engineering
(503) 248-0313 phone
(503) 248-9251 fax

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:

Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in your vote. Thank you!

Sincerely,
Randy Word
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Justin Serna

2012-09-11

SAND!!!

CycleSoles.com
Justin J. Serna
Sales & Marketing Mgr.
900 SE Wilson Ave., Suite F
Bend, Oregon 97702
Cell. 502.209.7565
office. 541.647.1108

________________________________
From: Todd Mobley
To: Randy Word
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Thank you for input re: sand

Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping stuff.

Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?

-Todd

--
Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
Principal
Lancaster Engineering
(503) 248-0313 phone
(503) 248-9251 fax

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:

Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in your vote. Thank you!
>
>Sincerely,
>Randy Word
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Shane Gibson

2012-09-11

"Dainty drive trains" ... it always makes me chuckle that cyclists in
particular seem so set on doing things the "traditional" way. Using road
components for 'cross is just asking to have them daintily destroyed on a
regular basis. But, I guess that's great for the cycling industry, right?
More sales, healthy market, more companies competing for our dollars, more
product options. There is a set of equipment designed to take abuse like
'cross dishes out ... it's called ... mountain bike components!!! Later
this year I'm switching to an all road/cx specific group on a new CX bike -
and I expect to lose a rear derailleur or two because of it.

In any case - I'm all for sand. The harder, nastier, more technical the
features, the better for me. I'm slow as molasses in January, so I prefer
courses with more technical features to make up the difference. I agree
that more technical stuff makes it more interesting - it's fun to be
challenged with crazy obstacles that force you to ride differently or even
abandon riding and run through the obstacle. I've played with hill "run
ups" to decide if it was better to ride up it or run up it. Pretty cool to
have to learn new ways to attack obstacles.

I have to admit for years I sneered at 'cross as "some stupid not-bicycle
sport". I finally agreed to try a race ... and now I'm pathetically
addicted and need my Fall fix ... go into withdrawal in January when the
shakes start coming ... and it's because of those goofy obstacles and
forcing us to "be like a kid on a bike" that makes 'cross so fun for me.
Where else in our otherwise sanitized lives to we get mucky, filthy,
dirty, ride through sand, mud gravel, and just plain weird places? FUN!

BRING THE SAND ON !!

~~shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Brooke Hoyer wrote:

> I agree with Todd.
>
> And why no love for the sand? PDX area cross races at the end of the dry
> season need something extra to make them special. I'm not sure about the
> Canby venue and proposed course, but sand makes for a great feature. Maybe
> it makes an extra dismount a lap -- I'd rather deep sand than some
> barriers. In my opinion, a CX race should get the rider off the bike at
> least three times a lap and if that can be done without *any* barriers,
> then awesome.
>
> At Het Meer, I rode on to the beach every lap, and "ran" off the beach
> every lap. It was about as fast, depending on foot speed and remount
> technique to run on to the the beach.
>
> Disclaimer: I race SS so I'm not quite as worried about sand grinding my
> drivetrain as some of those dainty 10 and 11 speed devotees.
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Todd Mobley <
> todd@lancasterengineering.com> wrote:
>
>> Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the
>> sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like
>> something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel
>> about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping
>> stuff.
>>
>> Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is
>> everyone afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?
>>
>> -Todd
>>
>> --
>> Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
>> Principal
>> Lancaster Engineering
>> (503) 248-0313 phone
>> (503) 248-9251 fax
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no
>>> sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent
>>> input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in
>>> your vote. Thank you!
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Randy Word
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Brooke Hoyer

2012-09-11

I agree with Todd.

And why no love for the sand? PDX area cross races at the end of the dry
season need something extra to make them special. I'm not sure about the
Canby venue and proposed course, but sand makes for a great feature. Maybe
it makes an extra dismount a lap -- I'd rather deep sand than some
barriers. In my opinion, a CX race should get the rider off the bike at
least three times a lap and if that can be done without *any* barriers,
then awesome.

At Het Meer, I rode on to the beach every lap, and "ran" off the beach
every lap. It was about as fast, depending on foot speed and remount
technique to run on to the the beach.

Disclaimer: I race SS so I'm not quite as worried about sand grinding my
drivetrain as some of those dainty 10 and 11 speed devotees.

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Todd Mobley
wrote:

> Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the
> sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like
> something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel
> about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping
> stuff.
>
> Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone
> afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?
>
> -Todd
>
> --
> Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
> Principal
> Lancaster Engineering
> (503) 248-0313 phone
> (503) 248-9251 fax
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:
>
>> Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no
>> sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent
>> input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in
>> your vote. Thank you!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Randy Word
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Todd Mobley

2012-09-11

Here's something I don't understand about this listserv. Why does the
sand/no sand cyclocross discussion take place off-list? That seems like
something very much relevant to bike racing and I'm curious how others feel
about it. I'd much rather wade through those replies than the Lance/doping
stuff.

Why not keep the racing subject matter and discussion on-list? Is everyone
afraid to publicly admit that they think riding sand is too hard?

-Todd

--
Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE
Principal
Lancaster Engineering
(503) 248-0313 phone
(503) 248-9251 fax

On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 12:12 PM, Randy Word wrote:

> Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or no
> sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some excellent
> input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a chance to throw in
> your vote. Thank you!
>
> Sincerely,
> Randy Word
> ______________________________**_________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Randy Word

2012-09-11

Thank you to everyone who's responded with feedback regarding sand or
no sand at the Canby Cross-Word CX Challenge. We're getting some
excellent input. The "polls" are still open if you haven't got a
chance to throw in your vote. Thank you!

Sincerely,
Randy Word