OBRA: OBRA Chat: Lap Times- was Sandbagging

Lap Times- was Sandbagging

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Candi Murray

2012-10-05

On all the races that I have been the CJ I have lap times on almost all the
riders. If you ever want to see those just send me a message. I was not CJ
for Barlow

Candi

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 1:56 PM
To: Marcelo Silva
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

Times and number of laps are all shown it would be a reasonably easy (albeit
a lot of work) to figure out the points as if you were in the C's instead of
the Beginners but there would have to be some sort of estimation as the race
time is roughly 10% longer.

SORRY Candi

John

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 1:50 PM, Marcelo Silva wrote:

well, the idea for debating here is to get enough grassroots support for the
change :-)

_____

From: Steven Beardsley
To: Marcelo Silva
Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 1:38 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

Ya, we got that. You already sent three emails saying so.

Upgrades are governed by OBRA rules, see here:
http://www.obra.org/upgrade_rules.html

If you want those rules changed, whining about it on OBRA Chat is not going
to make it happen. Submit a request to change the rules to the Executive
Director and it will be reviewed and voted on at the annual OBRA business
meeting.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Marcelo Silva wrote:

i think cross crusade is fine...the upgrade mid-season is the issue, i think
it should happen at the end of the season or calendar year.

_____

From: Steven Beardsley
To: Marcelo Silva
Cc: "Ormerod, Gilbert" ;
"rondot@spiritone.com" ; Chris Cortez
; Erik Voldengen ;
"obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 1:17 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

Rules are Rules. If you want them changed, propose it at the annual meeting.

If you don't like how the Cross Crusade runs their series, you should talk
with Brad about it. I would be happy to give you his contact info.

There is no point in arguing about it here.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Marcelo Silva wrote:

Exactly, but that happens next year, not in the same year...you don't go up
to chemistry 201 before finishing 101...the cross crusades also score points
based on how you finish, so it's not fair to race hard to score points and
then be upgraded before the end of the series.

_____

From: "Ormerod, Gilbert"
To: "'rondot@spiritone.com'" ; Chris Cortez
; Erik Voldengen
Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 11:42 AM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

Ron,

If you get an "A" in Chemistry 101 you still have to start all over when you
take Chemistry 201.

You may have worked hard to earn that "A" in the beginner Chemistry class,
but you're going to have to start the next level of Chemistry with a clean
slate and prove, once again, that you're an "A" student.

Gil

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of rondot@spiritone.com
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 11:19 AM
To: Chris Cortez; Erik Voldengen
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

Here is one for the officials.......................

If a person is upgraded from Beginner to C or C to B say......

Does this person take any percentage of the "points" they have EARNED with
them to the higher cat? It seems this would be a fair thing to do, but
needs to be tempered somewhat to not be an "advantage" over the racers in
the upper cat who have been working hard in that higher level of racing.
But it just seems to me the rider being upgraded should not start in the new
cat at zero points. He / She worked hard to earn the upgrade.

ron

From: Chris Cortez

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 10:40 AM

To: Erik Voldengen

Cc: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

What is the opposite of sandbagging? I think I'm doing that. I wake up every
Monday morning surprised that I haven't yet received Candy's mandatory
downgrade email.

On Oct 5, 2012, at 10:19 AM, Erik Voldengen wrote:

So...it's up to someone else to make you want to race hard?

The nature of racing IS to race hard.

On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Marcelo Silva wrote:

hhuumm..if it's not about winning why do they score points...why do they
give cash prizes to categories other than As ??? why do they have team
competition ??? if you start your season as a C, then score good points, and
they move you up to a B and you have to start from scratch, what is the
incentive to race hard ???

_____

From: tony kic
To: msilva01@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, October 5, 2012 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

that's missing the point. racing isn't about winning, it's about getting
better at it. -t

_____

Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 07:33:50 -0700
From: msilva01@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

i think it's not right to move people to a different category in the middle
of the season, that should be done before the season starts based on last
years points. what is the point of racing hard to try to score points and
win in that category if they move you up ??? may be it's good for the slow
people, so they can just wait for the fast guys to be upgraded !!!

_____

From: "rondot@spiritone.com"
To: Thom Schoenborn ; Mikey McDonald

Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, October 4, 2012 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

Please translate..........it went right by me like most things and other
racers.

ron

From: Thom Schoenborn

Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 2:46 PM

To: Mikey McDonald

Cc: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

Does someone want to pre-translate this zinger for Ron? ;-)

(I tease because I love ya, Ron!)

On Oct 3, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Mikey McDonald wrote:

"Otherwise just ride faster." hahahahaha- Pwned.

_____

From: Candi Murray
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:57 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] FW: Beginner CX sandbagging?

I have upgraded at least 4-6 people every week. I carefully go through the
results on Monday and send out notices to people who have amassed 20 points.
If I have missing anyone, it has been pointed out to me by the people they
are beating. If I missed anyone obvious I am interested in hearing about it.
Otherwise just ride faster.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Adam
Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 9:46 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Beginner CX sandbagging?

hey all

I was just looking at my dismal performance in beginners this year at the
blind date races.

Time wise, the guys in the top 25 of beginners are in the top 60 of C/master
C. I also see the same guys getting a top spot in each beginner race in the
blind date and the GP races.

Whats up? Why dont you move up a class? When you race that fast in a
beginner class you are really just wrecking the race for the others in
beginner since the laps are based on the race leader. Not really all that
fair.

You know you are better and you know you dominate the field.

so nut up and cat up. You pay the same amount, get to race longer, and get
to race against guys and gals that are stronger than you...it will only make
you better

Even though I pretty much suck, Im going to move up and pull the back of the
master C pack along for the Crusades as well as the GPs. I get to race an
extra 5 minutes. Somebody has to be last place.

Better to be the back of the Cs than the first in beginners.
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