chad butler

honestly, if you're having to call out your passes you're probably not passing in the correct places. I'm way too compliant with moving out of the way for faster riders, especially in mixed category fields, but racing is as much psychological as it is physical. I almost never call out my impending passes, instead I wait for the right opportunity and then attempt to blow past with authority so that the rider I just passed loses the confidence to think they can catch back up. It's not just a sport, it's a race. HTFU.

mohair

Keep in mind that roughly twenty percent of the people you meet on the road will have measurable hearing loss. Typically, it is not "full spectrum" deafness, but rather centered around specific frequencies. I have noted that I tend to lose "alto" voices but I hear bike bells quite well.

A friend of mine is married to a guy who served on the flight deck in the Air Force and has serious hearing loss. She pointed out that you're blind in front, but you're deaf 360 degrees.

Call out in a loud voice when you're approaching someone (maybe 15 feet away) and if there is no visible response, plan for the worst.

Be safe out there.

peter staiger

I like to give an audible 'on your left.' I like to yell it out pretty loud
when I am still a ways back. The reason for this is if the other rider is
startled it gives them time to collect themselves before I pass them. I
have also found that when a rider is right behind me then says on your
left, it startles me a lot more then if I hear them yelling from a ways
back. I think the brain recognizes a sound that is far away is less of an
immediate threat than one that is right behind you. Think of how someone
sneaking up behind you and saying something in your ear can be very
startling. Just my opinion. I am sure there are a lot of right answers to
this situation.

Best regards,

Peter

--
Peter Staiger

Alta Enterprises, Inc.
1910 Bustle Creek Road
Alta, WY 83414

800.624.1235 Office
541.231.1238 Cell
541.230.1291 Fax
pstaiger@altaenterprises.com
www.altaenterprises.com

On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Geri Bossen wrote:

> That is a really good idea to say "Passing".
>
> I have had the problem of calling out "on your left" only to have kids
> etc. pull left into my path.
>
> On Cycle Oregon a simple loud "LEFT" usually worked but those were all
> cyclists used to it.
>
> Geri Bossen
>
> ------------------------------
> From: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:21:55 -0800
> To: tdorth@gmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org; nathanfrechen@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] On the left
>
>
> Advice from Jonathan Maus's Bike Blog is to call out "passing". Seems to
> have worked for me. People continue straight without the startle of which
> way to turn or look.
>
>
> Steve Brown
>
>
> On Nov 3, 2012, at 8:15 PM, Tom Orth wrote:
>
> This is complicated. I agree there are no easy answers. I've had the
> experience where calling out, "on your left" startles the person I'm
> passing, they lurch left left, usually while craning around to see who's
> coming. Maybe they wobble. When walking, they've gone all Bambi on ice a
> few times. Sometimes they startle to the right. If they are walkers,
> sometimes they'll windmill their warms while startling. If you don't say
> anything, they startle too. Except as Nathan points out, too late to cause
> a collision, and the startle is usually less severe. I usually only call
> out "on your left" if I'm on a multi-use path and there isn't sufficient
> room for me to give a respectable passing space. In that case, I slow to
> match speed, use my most cheerful, non startle inducing voice, and pass as
> respectfully as possible. If I'm on the road, I just give a respectable
> gap and go around.
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Nathan Frechen wrote:
>
> Valid points - and I highly stress I'm not attempting to kick off one of
> the "threads that never end" - but there is a counterpoint. Groups should
> give plenty of room, yes. I generally ride by myself, and generally give no
> notice.
>
> Why? Newer riders, runners, walkers, people with headphones sometimes
> don't "On your left" and stay where they are, and instead here "left" and
> move left directly into my path. My solution is to give no notice and if
> they are startled, I'm generally past them at that point and if they move
> over, there is no interference between them and myself. Yes, they're
> surprised, but it's safer for both parties.
>
> There's no perfect solution because not everyone is aware of the "rules of
> the road". I try to adhere to the solution that is going to result in the
> least amount of carnage, even if startles some.
>
> Again - not discounting the feelings of others, but just wanted to present
> reasons for why people might be slipping by on the left unannounced. It's
> not simply because I'm being a jerk.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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>
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>
>
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> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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>

Geri Bossen

That is a really good idea to say "Passing".

I have had the problem of calling out "on your left" only to have kids etc. pull left into my path.

On Cycle Oregon a simple loud "LEFT" usually worked but those were all cyclists used to it.

Geri Bossen

From: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 15:21:55 -0800
To: tdorth@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org; nathanfrechen@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] On the left

Advice from Jonathan Maus's Bike Blog is to call out "passing". Seems to have worked for me. People continue straight without the startle of which way to turn or look.

Steve Brown

On Nov 3, 2012, at 8:15 PM, Tom Orth wrote:This is complicated. I agree there are no easy answers. I've had the experience where calling out, "on your left" startles the person I'm passing, they lurch left left, usually while craning around to see who's coming. Maybe they wobble. When walking, they've gone all Bambi on ice a few times. Sometimes they startle to the right. If they are walkers, sometimes they'll windmill their warms while startling. If you don't say anything, they startle too. Except as Nathan points out, too late to cause a collision, and the startle is usually less severe. I usually only call out "on your left" if I'm on a multi-use path and there isn't sufficient room for me to give a respectable passing space. In that case, I slow to match speed, use my most cheerful, non startle inducing voice, and pass as respectfully as possible. If I'm on the road, I just give a respectable gap and go around.

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Nathan Frechen wrote:

Valid points - and I highly stress I'm not attempting to kick off one of the "threads that never end" - but there is a counterpoint. Groups should give plenty of room, yes. I generally ride by myself, and generally give no notice.

Why? Newer riders, runners, walkers, people with headphones sometimes don't "On your left" and stay where they are, and instead here "left" and move left directly into my path. My solution is to give no notice and if they are startled, I'm generally past them at that point and if they move over, there is no interference between them and myself. Yes, they're surprised, but it's safer for both parties.

There's no perfect solution because not everyone is aware of the "rules of the road". I try to adhere to the solution that is going to result in the least amount of carnage, even if startles some.

Again - not discounting the feelings of others, but just wanted to present reasons for why people might be slipping by on the left unannounced. It's not simply because I'm being a jerk.

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Steve Brown

Advice from Jonathan Maus's Bike Blog is to call out "passing". Seems to have worked for me. People continue straight without the startle of which way to turn or look.

Steve Brown

On Nov 3, 2012, at 8:15 PM, Tom Orth wrote:

> This is complicated. I agree there are no easy answers. I've had the experience where calling out, "on your left" startles the person I'm passing, they lurch left left, usually while craning around to see who's coming. Maybe they wobble. When walking, they've gone all Bambi on ice a few times. Sometimes they startle to the right. If they are walkers, sometimes they'll windmill their warms while startling. If you don't say anything, they startle too. Except as Nathan points out, too late to cause a collision, and the startle is usually less severe. I usually only call out "on your left" if I'm on a multi-use path and there isn't sufficient room for me to give a respectable passing space. In that case, I slow to match speed, use my most cheerful, non startle inducing voice, and pass as respectfully as possible. If I'm on the road, I just give a respectable gap and go around.
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Nathan Frechen wrote:
> Valid points - and I highly stress I'm not attempting to kick off one of the "threads that never end" - but there is a counterpoint. Groups should give plenty of room, yes. I generally ride by myself, and generally give no notice.
>
> Why? Newer riders, runners, walkers, people with headphones sometimes don't "On your left" and stay where they are, and instead here "left" and move left directly into my path. My solution is to give no notice and if they are startled, I'm generally past them at that point and if they move over, there is no interference between them and myself. Yes, they're surprised, but it's safer for both parties.
>
> There's no perfect solution because not everyone is aware of the "rules of the road". I try to adhere to the solution that is going to result in the least amount of carnage, even if startles some.
>
> Again - not discounting the feelings of others, but just wanted to present reasons for why people might be slipping by on the left unannounced. It's not simply because I'm being a jerk.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Robert Fox

All good thoughtful answers to a valid question. Another aspect of this "on your left" question is that: (not to kill you buzz) the overtaking cyclist may be LEGALLY required to "give an audible signal" when passing,, of course the circumstances vary, as do the pertinent laws, but you might do well to do a little simple research on this topic. On the small chance that the whole passing thing "goes south" and you injure someone, you could end up losing in court for not saying "on you left",,,, something to think about

Robert

On Nov 3, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Kevin wrote:

> good reminder for all of us. Thanks!
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE too smartphone
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:[OBRA Chat] On the left
> From :casey patton
> Date :Sat, 03-Nov-2012 14:03
> To :obra@list.obra.org
> CC :
>
> I'm posting this on behalf of my dad. My dad is 91 years old and still riding regularly. He is slow but he's out there. He also really does not want to fall down. He frequently mentions being passed by riders or large groups who come fairly close to him and give him no warning they are coming. It seems to me that "on your left" is common courtesy when passing someone. Most of us are used to riding in a pack at speed but there are plenty of cyclists out there who are new or older and not as skilled and confident and may be startled by someone coming by, particularly a group. Plus if you're passing it also makes sense for your own safety to let someone know you're coming by...if they swerve to miss something you're not aware of they may take you and your $6,000 superbike down, damaging it and maybe damaging YOU! My wife is new to cycling and has the same complaint. So, please, don't be the ass that takes out a 91 year old man and give a simple "on your left" when passing.
> Thanks,
> Casey
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rondot@spiritone.com

No matter what the people you are overtaking are doing, not aware of you (earphones / conversation /young kids etc.), on foot, riding or whatever...in my opinion, it you are in a tight place (Hawthorne / Broadway bridges or paths) where you cannot move way over away from person....the most important thing is to slow down and be as courteous as possible like Tom stated. Even if people who do not know you are coming are doing stupid things (or maybe we the overtaking cyclist might be doing stupid things), it is not worth taking them and yourself out. If you are into an intense workout, it can still be that work out as you stand and accelerate after you are by them safely.
just my thoughts.
ron

From: Tom Orth
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 8:15 PM
To: Nathan Frechen
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] On the left

This is complicated. I agree there are no easy answers. I've had the experience where calling out, "on your left" startles the person I'm passing, they lurch left left, usually while craning around to see who's coming. Maybe they wobble. When walking, they've gone all Bambi on ice a few times. Sometimes they startle to the right. If they are walkers, sometimes they'll windmill their warms while startling. If you don't say anything, they startle too. Except as Nathan points out, too late to cause a collision, and the startle is usually less severe. I usually only call out "on your left" if I'm on a multi-use path and there isn't sufficient room for me to give a respectable passing space. In that case, I slow to match speed, use my most cheerful, non startle inducing voice, and pass as respectfully as possible. If I'm on the road, I just give a respectable gap and go around.

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Nathan Frechen wrote:

Valid points - and I highly stress I'm not attempting to kick off one of the "threads that never end" - but there is a counterpoint. Groups should give plenty of room, yes. I generally ride by myself, and generally give no notice.

Why? Newer riders, runners, walkers, people with headphones sometimes don't "On your left" and stay where they are, and instead here "left" and move left directly into my path. My solution is to give no notice and if they are startled, I'm generally past them at that point and if they move over, there is no interference between them and myself. Yes, they're surprised, but it's safer for both parties.

There's no perfect solution because not everyone is aware of the "rules of the road". I try to adhere to the solution that is going to result in the least amount of carnage, even if startles some.

Again - not discounting the feelings of others, but just wanted to present reasons for why people might be slipping by on the left unannounced. It's not simply because I'm being a jerk.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Tom Orth

This is complicated. I agree there are no easy answers. I've had the
experience where calling out, "on your left" startles the person I'm
passing, they lurch left left, usually while craning around to see who's
coming. Maybe they wobble. When walking, they've gone all Bambi on ice a
few times. Sometimes they startle to the right. If they are walkers,
sometimes they'll windmill their warms while startling. If you don't say
anything, they startle too. Except as Nathan points out, too late to cause
a collision, and the startle is usually less severe. I usually only call
out "on your left" if I'm on a multi-use path and there isn't sufficient
room for me to give a respectable passing space. In that case, I slow to
match speed, use my most cheerful, non startle inducing voice, and pass as
respectfully as possible. If I'm on the road, I just give a respectable
gap and go around.

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Nathan Frechen wrote:

> Valid points - and I highly stress I'm not attempting to kick off one of
> the "threads that never end" - but there is a counterpoint. Groups should
> give plenty of room, yes. I generally ride by myself, and generally give no
> notice.
>
> Why? Newer riders, runners, walkers, people with headphones sometimes
> don't "On your left" and stay where they are, and instead here "left" and
> move left directly into my path. My solution is to give no notice and if
> they are startled, I'm generally past them at that point and if they move
> over, there is no interference between them and myself. Yes, they're
> surprised, but it's safer for both parties.
>
> There's no perfect solution because not everyone is aware of the "rules of
> the road". I try to adhere to the solution that is going to result in the
> least amount of carnage, even if startles some.
>
> Again - not discounting the feelings of others, but just wanted to present
> reasons for why people might be slipping by on the left unannounced. It's
> not simply because I'm being a jerk.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Nathan Frechen

Valid points - and I highly stress I'm not attempting to kick off one of the "threads that never end" - but there is a counterpoint. Groups should give plenty of room, yes. I generally ride by myself, and generally give no notice.

Why? Newer riders, runners, walkers, people with headphones sometimes don't "On your left" and stay where they are, and instead here "left" and move left directly into my path. My solution is to give no notice and if they are startled, I'm generally past them at that point and if they move over, there is no interference between them and myself. Yes, they're surprised, but it's safer for both parties.

There's no perfect solution because not everyone is aware of the "rules of the road". I try to adhere to the solution that is going to result in the least amount of carnage, even if startles some.

Again - not discounting the feelings of others, but just wanted to present reasons for why people might be slipping by on the left unannounced. It's not simply because I'm being a jerk.

Kevin

good reminder for all of us. Thanks!

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE too smartphone

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:[OBRA Chat] On the left
From :casey patton
Date :Sat, 03-Nov-2012 14:03
To :obra@list.obra.org
CC :

I'm posting this on behalf of my dad. My dad is 91 years old and still riding regularly. He is slow but he's out there. He also really does not want to fall down. He frequently mentions being passed by riders or large groups who come fairly close to him and give him no warning they are coming. It seems to me that "on your left" is common courtesy when passing someone. Most of us are used to riding in a pack at speed but there are plenty of cyclists out there who are new or older and not as skilled and confident and may be startled by someone coming by, particularly a group. Plus if you're passing it also makes sense for your own safety to let someone know you're coming by...if they swerve to miss something you're not aware of they may take you and your $6,000 superbike down, damaging it and maybe damaging YOU! My wife is new to cycling and has the same complaint. So, please, don't be the ass that takes out a 91 year old man and give a simple "on your left" when passing.

Thanks,
Casey

casey patton

I'm posting this on behalf of my dad. My dad is 91 years old and still
riding regularly. He is slow but he's out there. He also really does not
want to fall down. He frequently mentions being passed by riders or large
groups who come fairly close to him and give him no warning they are
coming. It seems to me that "on your left" is common courtesy when passing
someone. Most of us are used to riding in a pack at speed but there are
plenty of cyclists out there who are new or older and not as skilled and
confident and may be startled by someone coming by, particularly a group.
Plus if you're passing it also makes sense for your own safety to let
someone know you're coming by...if they swerve to miss something you're not
aware of they may take you and your $6,000 superbike down, damaging it and
maybe damaging YOU! My wife is new to cycling and has the same complaint.
So, please, don't be the ass that takes out a 91 year old man and give a
simple "on your left" when passing.
Thanks,
Casey