Rear Derailleur - cx

rondot@spiritone.com

2012-11-15

and......”As Cyclocross is my witness, retroshift shifters work sweet. I am confident mine will last years and years with occasional shift cable change...
...kind of like a CK component!
I am amazed how super complex some bicycle parts are designed thus ending up having shorter life spans and higher maintenance costs.
And like most of the other things marketers, politicians or special interests lead us to believe we either “need” or “should fear”..............we buy it.
just my thoughts.
ronnie

From: grantcollins@ymail.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:04 PM
To: Shane Gibson
Cc: OBRA ; Adam
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rear Derailleur - cx

Well said, what Shane said, and what I was trying to say while driving in 20 words or less!

Thanks GC
425-780-0374

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:50 PM, Shane Gibson wrote:

Adam - if you are using modern SRAM components, you can mix and match Road and MTB stuff. They both use what they (now) call "Exact Actuation". They used to call it "one to one" (I think). Basically the road shifters/derailleurs move the same amount with each shift operation that the MTB components do. Not only in theory - but in practice ... I use SRAM Force shifters on my CX bike, with SRAM medium cage X9 Type 2 (clutch) derailleur.

My philosophy ... CX is a lot more like MTB in terms of demand on your component set. If you are running road based components, you deserve to have your rear derailleur ripped off in muddy conditions (or, maybe not "deserve", but I have no pity for you when I hear of it happening). Road stuff wasn't designed for the rigors of MTB usage. Duh. But, there is still a huge amount of so called crappy "tradition" surrounding CX bikes/systems.

That's starting to change a lot with the introduction of disc brake systems for CX usage, the change to a 135mm rear hub spacing (a traditional mainstay of MTB vs. Road 130mm rear hubs), etc. In the last year I've seen more 1x10 frankensteined setups than in years past. I've also seen more people shifting to some MTB components on their CX bikes (like a number of people switching to flats over drop bars ...).

I used to run a long cage SRAM X0 MTB derailleur on my CX bike, and had a lot of issues. Simple because there was too much chain in the equation, chain slap (on a bike without suspension - it's amplified over a partially or fully suspended MTB), and chain dropping was an issue on my 1x10 setup. The medium cage SRAM X9 with the Type 2 (clutch based) rear derailleur has made a major difference. My chain is whisper quite. I don't think I've heard chain slap once this year, when last and previous years, it was a huge issue. Years passed I had a number of poor race results from dropping my chain from bounce/slap issues. No more with the Type 2.

I don't know the interoperability of Shimano Road vs. MTB components, since I don't run Shimano for anything other than my traditional road bike.

To make the long short ... Yeah - Type 2 rocks. Shorter cages are better for reducing the amount of chain you need to run, but you still need to insure your capacity of your front/rear is calculated in to the equation (can you run a short, medium, or long cage derailleur?).

MTB components are designed to take more of a beating than road components are. Plain and simple. Pretty cool times with the way things are changing. Heck - those Retroshifters are looking pretty cool over the delicacy of the road brake/shift lever combos. They're high on my radar of things to check out.

~~shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Adam wrote:

Any reason a MTB Rear derailleur would not be better to use for cx than a standard road? Not sure of any differences, but Id think a MTB RD would be a bit more robust.

Im specifically looking at the newer X9 type 2. uses the road actuation ratio. the "clutch" on the thing is also supposed to eliminate chain slap.

any reason not to go this route?

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grantcollins@ymail.com

2012-11-14

Well said, what Shane said, and what I was trying to say while driving in 20 words or less!

Thanks GC
425-780-0374

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2012, at 6:50 PM, Shane Gibson wrote:

>
> Adam - if you are using modern SRAM components, you can mix and match Road and MTB stuff. They both use what they (now) call "Exact Actuation". They used to call it "one to one" (I think). Basically the road shifters/derailleurs move the same amount with each shift operation that the MTB components do. Not only in theory - but in practice ... I use SRAM Force shifters on my CX bike, with SRAM medium cage X9 Type 2 (clutch) derailleur.
>
> My philosophy ... CX is a lot more like MTB in terms of demand on your component set. If you are running road based components, you deserve to have your rear derailleur ripped off in muddy conditions (or, maybe not "deserve", but I have no pity for you when I hear of it happening). Road stuff wasn't designed for the rigors of MTB usage. Duh. But, there is still a huge amount of so called crappy "tradition" surrounding CX bikes/systems.
>
> That's starting to change a lot with the introduction of disc brake systems for CX usage, the change to a 135mm rear hub spacing (a traditional mainstay of MTB vs. Road 130mm rear hubs), etc. In the last year I've seen more 1x10 frankensteined setups than in years past. I've also seen more people shifting to some MTB components on their CX bikes (like a number of people switching to flats over drop bars ...).
>
> I used to run a long cage SRAM X0 MTB derailleur on my CX bike, and had a lot of issues. Simple because there was too much chain in the equation, chain slap (on a bike without suspension - it's amplified over a partially or fully suspended MTB), and chain dropping was an issue on my 1x10 setup. The medium cage SRAM X9 with the Type 2 (clutch based) rear derailleur has made a major difference. My chain is whisper quite. I don't think I've heard chain slap once this year, when last and previous years, it was a huge issue. Years passed I had a number of poor race results from dropping my chain from bounce/slap issues. No more with the Type 2.
>
> I don't know the interoperability of Shimano Road vs. MTB components, since I don't run Shimano for anything other than my traditional road bike.
>
> To make the long short ... Yeah - Type 2 rocks. Shorter cages are better for reducing the amount of chain you need to run, but you still need to insure your capacity of your front/rear is calculated in to the equation (can you run a short, medium, or long cage derailleur?).
>
> MTB components are designed to take more of a beating than road components are. Plain and simple. Pretty cool times with the way things are changing. Heck - those Retroshifters are looking pretty cool over the delicacy of the road brake/shift lever combos. They're high on my radar of things to check out.
>
> ~~shane
>
>
> --
> "Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Adam wrote:
>> Any reason a MTB Rear derailleur would not be better to use for cx than a standard road? Not sure of any differences, but Id think a MTB RD would be a bit more robust.
>>
>> Im specifically looking at the newer X9 type 2. uses the road actuation ratio. the "clutch" on the thing is also supposed to eliminate chain slap.
>>
>> any reason not to go this route?
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Shane Gibson

2012-11-14

Adam - if you are using modern SRAM components, you can mix and match Road
and MTB stuff. They both use what they (now) call "Exact Actuation". They
used to call it "one to one" (I think). Basically the road
shifters/derailleurs move the same amount with each shift operation that
the MTB components do. Not only in theory - but in practice ... I use SRAM
Force shifters on my CX bike, with SRAM medium cage X9 Type 2 (clutch)
derailleur.

My philosophy ... CX is a lot more like MTB in terms of demand on your
component set. If you are running road based components, you deserve to
have your rear derailleur ripped off in muddy conditions (or, maybe not
"deserve", but I have no pity for you when I hear of it happening). Road
stuff wasn't designed for the rigors of MTB usage. Duh. But, there is
still a huge amount of so called crappy "tradition" surrounding CX
bikes/systems.

That's starting to change a lot with the introduction of disc brake systems
for CX usage, the change to a 135mm rear hub spacing (a traditional
mainstay of MTB vs. Road 130mm rear hubs), etc. In the last year I've seen
more 1x10 frankensteined setups than in years past. I've also seen more
people shifting to some MTB components on their CX bikes (like a number of
people switching to flats over drop bars ...).

I used to run a long cage SRAM X0 MTB derailleur on my CX bike, and had a
lot of issues. Simple because there was too much chain in the equation,
chain slap (on a bike without suspension - it's amplified over a partially
or fully suspended MTB), and chain dropping was an issue on my 1x10 setup.
The medium cage SRAM X9 with the Type 2 (clutch based) rear derailleur has
made a major difference. My chain is whisper quite. I don't think I've
heard chain slap once this year, when last and previous years, it was a
huge issue. Years passed I had a number of poor race results from
dropping my chain from bounce/slap issues. No more with the Type 2.

I don't know the interoperability of Shimano Road vs. MTB components, since
I don't run Shimano for anything other than my traditional road bike.

To make the long short ... Yeah - Type 2 rocks. Shorter cages are better
for reducing the amount of chain you need to run, but you still need to
insure your capacity of your front/rear is calculated in to the equation
(can you run a short, medium, or long cage derailleur?).

MTB components are designed to take more of a beating than road components
are. Plain and simple. Pretty cool times with the way things are
changing. Heck - those Retroshifters are looking pretty cool over the
delicacy of the road brake/shift lever combos. They're high on my radar of
things to check out.

~~shane

--
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized." - Sun Tzu

On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Adam wrote:

> Any reason a MTB Rear derailleur would not be better to use for cx than a
> standard road? Not sure of any differences, but Id think a MTB RD would be
> a bit more robust.
>
> Im specifically looking at the newer X9 type 2. uses the road actuation
> ratio. the "clutch" on the thing is also supposed to eliminate chain slap.
>
> any reason not to go this route?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


grantcollins@ymail.com

2012-11-14

I use XTR drive train on my CX bike and had zero issues. I would recommend the X9 type2 over any road deraileur for CX for sure!

Thanks GC
425-780-0374

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 13, 2012, at 5:49 PM, "Brian List" wrote:

> I use a short/medium cage XT derailleur on my mountain bike (with two chain
> rings).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of John Wilson
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:14 PM
> To: 'Adam'; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rear Derailleur - cx
>
> A long cage derailleur has two disadvantages over a short cage road
> derailleur for CX.
>
> 1. The long cage derailleur is closer to the mud an gook and can pick up
> stuff more easily leading to higher risk of busted derailleur.
> 2. There is lower chain tension/longer chain that can lead to a thrown chain
> more easily.
>
> That is my two cents.
>
> John Wilson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Adam
> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:02 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rear Derailleur - cx
>
> Any reason a MTB Rear derailleur would not be better to use for cx than a
> standard road? Not sure of any differences, but Id think a MTB RD would be
> a bit more robust.
>
> Im specifically looking at the newer X9 type 2. uses the road actuation
> ratio. the "clutch" on the thing is also supposed to eliminate chain slap.
>
>
> any reason not to go this route?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Brian List

2012-11-14

I use a short/medium cage XT derailleur on my mountain bike (with two chain
rings).

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of John Wilson
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 3:14 PM
To: 'Adam'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rear Derailleur - cx

A long cage derailleur has two disadvantages over a short cage road
derailleur for CX.

1. The long cage derailleur is closer to the mud an gook and can pick up
stuff more easily leading to higher risk of busted derailleur.
2. There is lower chain tension/longer chain that can lead to a thrown chain
more easily.

That is my two cents.

John Wilson

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Adam
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:02 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rear Derailleur - cx

Any reason a MTB Rear derailleur would not be better to use for cx than a
standard road? Not sure of any differences, but Id think a MTB RD would be
a bit more robust.

Im specifically looking at the newer X9 type 2. uses the road actuation
ratio. the "clutch" on the thing is also supposed to eliminate chain slap.

any reason not to go this route?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


John Wilson

2012-11-13

A long cage derailleur has two disadvantages over a short cage road
derailleur for CX.

1. The long cage derailleur is closer to the mud an gook and can pick up
stuff more easily leading to higher risk of busted derailleur.
2. There is lower chain tension/longer chain that can lead to a thrown chain
more easily.

That is my two cents.

John Wilson

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Adam
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:02 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Rear Derailleur - cx

Any reason a MTB Rear derailleur would not be better to use for cx than a
standard road? Not sure of any differences, but Id think a MTB RD would be
a bit more robust.

Im specifically looking at the newer X9 type 2. uses the road actuation
ratio. the "clutch" on the thing is also supposed to eliminate chain slap.

any reason not to go this route?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Any reason a MTB Rear derailleur would not be better to use for cx than a standard road? Not sure of any differences, but Id think a MTB RD would be a bit more robust.

Im specifically looking at the newer X9 type 2. uses the road actuation ratio. the "clutch" on the thing is also supposed to eliminate chain slap.

any reason not to go this route?