The system should be tweaked so that Scott Goldstein can win at least one
race a year. That seems fair to me . . .
-sal
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Racing is racing. This is such a ridiculous discussion. If you want a
perfectly level playing field we should all put baskets on the from of
our bikes and go out for a picnic ride and the race officials will tell
those that are out from to move to the back. All of the masters would
need to have their walker in the basket with them.
I think we should do away with the categories as we know it and we
should categorize the events by how fast you can ride.
For example
1. Below 15MPH
2. From 15.1MPH to 18 MPH
3. From 18.1 to 21 MPH
4. 21.1 MPH to 25 MPH
5. 25.1 and above
You would move up a category if after the race your computer reads above
the average speed for that category.
Most of this e-mail is sarcasm.
Chris Alling
Neil Kelly Cabinets
Commercial Sales Representative
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mjen-@marylhurst.edu]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:47 AM
To: 'srh-@webtv.net'; mike.m-@obra.org
Cc: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters racing
That's too simplistic. 'Even' ability has more than one parameter. Age
as
related to performance certainly does. Otherwise, there wouldn't need to
be
categories at all, would there? There's an element here that goes beyond
some sort of 'weeding' process of the weak and attempts to address the
idea
that a satisfying experience of competition is valuable for everyone.
The
two ideas --age and ability -- are mixed already, both explicitly and
implicitly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven R Holland [mailto:srh-@webtv.net]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 5:57 PM
To: mike.m-@obra.org
Cc: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters racing
Mike Murray wrote:
"Personally I think age is a poor indicator of racing ability".
Mike, that's the problem: MASTERS RACING IS NOT ABILITY RACING!!! IT'S
AGE RACING, PERIOD.
Ability racing is what CATEGORY racing is for.
Like George Schreck said, cycling is one of the only sports that uses
something "other than age" to group competitors.
Why does everyone want to "mix" the two?????
Here is my solution:
Have 6 classes to race for men.
Cat 1/2
Cat 3
Cat 4
Cat 4/5
Masters 35+ [ 30+ is NOT a master ]
Jrs
[Combine fields if #'s are low.]
Cat 4/5's would be for beginners and older cat 4 masters. If an older
master starts to "dominate" the group, make them race with the 4's. Not
to mention this would be an excellent opportunity for someone new to get
advice/pointers [after the race] from an experienced racer.
Like Mike Murray said last year when this topic came up, go to the
annual banquet and propose a change if you want, not during the season.
STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
360-891-3924 cel 503-780-7296
___0
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( )/ ( )
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Does the fact that running races and triathlons only do age grading (no ability categories) play into this "no-win" conversation??
Or does the "standardized" distances make those a race against oneself vs the hundreds of other competitors? (but variations in course length and difficulty may throw that argument out too).
Wait, maybe it should be age, hours worked, and number of kids......................
MN
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mjen-@marylhurst.edu]
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:47 PM
To: 'srh-@webtv.net'; mike.m-@obra.org
Cc: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters racing
That's too simplistic. 'Even' ability has more than one parameter. Age as
related to performance certainly does. Otherwise, there wouldn't need to be
categories at all, would there? There's an element here that goes beyond
some sort of 'weeding' process of the weak and attempts to address the idea
that a satisfying experience of competition is valuable for everyone. The
two ideas --age and ability -- are mixed already, both explicitly and
implicitly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven R Holland [mailto:srh-@webtv.net]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 5:57 PM
To: mike.m-@obra.org
Cc: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters racing
Mike Murray wrote:
"Personally I think age is a poor indicator of racing ability".
Mike, that's the problem: MASTERS RACING IS NOT ABILITY RACING!!! IT'S
AGE RACING, PERIOD.
Ability racing is what CATEGORY racing is for.
Like George Schreck said, cycling is one of the only sports that uses
something "other than age" to group competitors.
Why does everyone want to "mix" the two?????
Here is my solution:
Have 6 classes to race for men.
Cat 1/2
Cat 3
Cat 4
Cat 4/5
Masters 35+ [ 30+ is NOT a master ]
Jrs
[Combine fields if #'s are low.]
Cat 4/5's would be for beginners and older cat 4 masters. If an older
master starts to "dominate" the group, make them race with the 4's. Not
to mention this would be an excellent opportunity for someone new to get
advice/pointers [after the race] from an experienced racer.
Like Mike Murray said last year when this topic came up, go to the
annual banquet and propose a change if you want, not during the season.
STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
360-891-3924 cel 503-780-7296
___0
\ \~
( )/ ( )
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
That's too simplistic. 'Even' ability has more than one parameter. Age as
related to performance certainly does. Otherwise, there wouldn't need to be
categories at all, would there? There's an element here that goes beyond
some sort of 'weeding' process of the weak and attempts to address the idea
that a satisfying experience of competition is valuable for everyone. The
two ideas --age and ability -- are mixed already, both explicitly and
implicitly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven R Holland [mailto:srh-@webtv.net]
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 5:57 PM
To: mike.m-@obra.org
Cc: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters racing
Mike Murray wrote:
"Personally I think age is a poor indicator of racing ability".
Mike, that's the problem: MASTERS RACING IS NOT ABILITY RACING!!! IT'S
AGE RACING, PERIOD.
Ability racing is what CATEGORY racing is for.
Like George Schreck said, cycling is one of the only sports that uses
something "other than age" to group competitors.
Why does everyone want to "mix" the two?????
Here is my solution:
Have 6 classes to race for men.
Cat 1/2
Cat 3
Cat 4
Cat 4/5
Masters 35+ [ 30+ is NOT a master ]
Jrs
[Combine fields if #'s are low.]
Cat 4/5's would be for beginners and older cat 4 masters. If an older
master starts to "dominate" the group, make them race with the 4's. Not
to mention this would be an excellent opportunity for someone new to get
advice/pointers [after the race] from an experienced racer.
Like Mike Murray said last year when this topic came up, go to the
annual banquet and propose a change if you want, not during the season.
STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
360-891-3924 cel 503-780-7296
___0
\ \~
( )/ ( )
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
Enough with the fields proper fitness will allow most masters to find
competition at all the obra events. Personally I would rather have my game
ready and beat younger riders, unless proper competetive peleton sized age
fields can be worked out. More pre registration would also help promoters
and riders look at fields ahead of time. Definitly something for next years
agenda.
From: mike.m-@obra.org
Reply-To: mike.m-@obra.org
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Masters racing
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 09:50:31 -0800
Steven R Holland [mailto:srh-@webtv.net] wrote:
"Here is my solution:
Have 6 classes to race for men.
Cat 1/2
Cat 3
Cat 4
Cat 4/5
Masters 35+ [ 30+ is NOT a master ]
Jrs
[Combine fields if #'s are low.]
Cat 4/5's would be for beginners and older cat 4 masters. If an older
master starts to "dominate" the group, make them race with the 4's. Not
to mention this would be an excellent opportunity for someone new to get
advice/pointers [after the race] from an experienced racer.
Like Mike Murray said last year when this topic came up, go to the
annual banquet and propose a change if you want, not during the season."
Steve's suggestion is similar to the format used by most race organizers,
with the addition of another "beginner" field. If we were to change
Steve's
Cat 4/5 field to Master's 35+ Cat 4/5 it would be identical to the
separations that Rich Cramer has announced for the POC which started all
this fuss. The Master's 35+ 4/5 probably makes more sense too since there
are roughly twice as many Cat 4/5 riders above 35 as below. (155 to 296)
The field separations are not mandated however and each race organizer is
free to choose to separate his fields as he sees fit, either to maximize
his
participation or to meet some other need. Rich Cramer has chosen to
separate his fields in a different format, one which bothers some people
and
delights others. That is his prerogative and ultimately he bears the most
cost or benefit, not the riders.
The field separation designations are decided on by the individual race
organizers NOT at the annual club representative meeting. A race organizer
can choose to separate fields based on which day of the week the rider was
born if they wish to, or by weight (has been done), height, etc.
Personally
I think it would be a bad policy to mandate specific field separations but
if someone disagrees they can feel free to propose such a rule change.
When race organizer make decisions about which field separators they use I
would suggest that they look at the characteristics of the membership in
deciding this. It is often suggested that races be held for fields that
actually contain very few riders. In fact, such races are often held and
they, not surprisingly, experience disappointing turn outs. An example
would be a Women's Cat 1/2 race. There are only 17 OBRA members that meet
this criteria. An excellent turn out would be 7-8 riders, too few for a
real race.
Mike Murray
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
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Steven R Holland [mailto:srh-@webtv.net] wrote:
"Here is my solution:
Have 6 classes to race for men.
Cat 1/2
Cat 3
Cat 4
Cat 4/5
Masters 35+ [ 30+ is NOT a master ]
Jrs
[Combine fields if #'s are low.]
Cat 4/5's would be for beginners and older cat 4 masters. If an older
master starts to "dominate" the group, make them race with the 4's. Not
to mention this would be an excellent opportunity for someone new to get
advice/pointers [after the race] from an experienced racer.
Like Mike Murray said last year when this topic came up, go to the
annual banquet and propose a change if you want, not during the season."
Steve's suggestion is similar to the format used by most race organizers,
with the addition of another "beginner" field. If we were to change Steve's
Cat 4/5 field to Master's 35+ Cat 4/5 it would be identical to the
separations that Rich Cramer has announced for the POC which started all
this fuss. The Master's 35+ 4/5 probably makes more sense too since there
are roughly twice as many Cat 4/5 riders above 35 as below. (155 to 296)
The field separations are not mandated however and each race organizer is
free to choose to separate his fields as he sees fit, either to maximize his
participation or to meet some other need. Rich Cramer has chosen to
separate his fields in a different format, one which bothers some people and
delights others. That is his prerogative and ultimately he bears the most
cost or benefit, not the riders.
The field separation designations are decided on by the individual race
organizers NOT at the annual club representative meeting. A race organizer
can choose to separate fields based on which day of the week the rider was
born if they wish to, or by weight (has been done), height, etc. Personally
I think it would be a bad policy to mandate specific field separations but
if someone disagrees they can feel free to propose such a rule change.
When race organizer make decisions about which field separators they use I
would suggest that they look at the characteristics of the membership in
deciding this. It is often suggested that races be held for fields that
actually contain very few riders. In fact, such races are often held and
they, not surprisingly, experience disappointing turn outs. An example
would be a Women's Cat 1/2 race. There are only 17 OBRA members that meet
this criteria. An excellent turn out would be 7-8 riders, too few for a
real race.
Mike Murray
--WebTV-Mail-15625-2281
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
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Mike Murray wrote:
"Personally I think age is a poor indicator of racing ability".
Mike, that's the problem: MASTERS RACING IS NOT ABILITY RACING!!! IT'S
AGE RACING, PERIOD.
Ability racing is what CATEGORY racing is for.
Like George Schreck said, cycling is one of the only sports that uses
something "other than age" to group competitors.
Why does everyone want to "mix" the two?????
Here is my solution:
Have 6 classes to race for men.
Cat 1/2
Cat 3
Cat 4
Cat 4/5
Masters 35+ [ 30+ is NOT a master ]
Jrs
[Combine fields if #'s are low.]
Cat 4/5's would be for beginners and older cat 4 masters. If an older
master starts to "dominate" the group, make them race with the 4's. Not
to mention this would be an excellent opportunity for someone new to get
advice/pointers [after the race] from an experienced racer.
Like Mike Murray said last year when this topic came up, go to the
annual banquet and propose a change if you want, not during the season.
STEVEN R HOLLAND
17203 SE 30th St.
VANCOUVER,WA 98683-2300
360-891-3924 cel 503-780-7296
___0
\ \~
( )/ ( )
--WebTV-Mail-15625-2281
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To: ob-@topica.com
From: mike.m-@obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] question for old (50+) racers re Columbia Plateau
race
Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:43:06 -0800
Message-ID: <1848960063-1463792126-1078521114@boing.topica.com>
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Eric Selker [mailto:sel-@molbio.uoregon.edu] wrote:
"there are actually a lot of 50+ racers in Oregon and that many hesitate to
do this race because they would need to compete against much younger
racers."
Out of the current 1049 OBRA members 129 are 50+.
13 are women
7 are Cat 2 (probably only 3 accurately categorized)
36 are Cat 3
36 are Cat 4
38 are Cat 5
The turn out for a race in general will be about 10-20% of the market as
identified by the OBRA membership list. This would predict that a 50+ field
in general will attract 15-25 competitors. Obviously this varies fairly
wildly depending on location, timing, etc. The bottom line is that although
it seems that there are a lot of 50+ riders the actual predicted turn out is
not all that large.
Personally I think that age is a poor predictor of racing ability. The same
is true of gender. Ability category is still a poor predictor but it is
better than age. Races separated by ability category will generally be more
competitive and therefore more fun.
Mike Murray
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
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--WebTV-Mail-15625-2281--
Of course there are bigger fields in Nor Cal but 99 percent of Master's
races in the NCNCA are broken up into 35+ 1/2/3 and 35+ 4/5.
I notice that our neighbors across the Columbia do some kind of "A" and
"B" 35+ deal...
30+ 1/2/3 is not too uncommon either.
Nancy come back.
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2F967.BD50EBE0
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Scott,
I think a few comments are in order:
1) It seems that a lot of the messages regarding unsafe riding at POC focus on the EWEB team. Instead of coming out calling fellow racers names and rubbing their noses in your 2nd place finish, you should consider that there may be a grain of truth to what's being said. In the name of the team, maybe show a hint of accountability or, if not accountability, at least a little compassion. I'll be the first to admit I have let the heat of battle get the best of me a few times, and done some stupid stuff because of it. But I won't use that as an excuse. And I've tried to learn from it.
2) OK, I'll give you that one.
3) I realize bicycle racing is inherently dangerous and accept that. I don't accept that "boneheads doing stupid things" needs to be part of that inherent danger. If someone intentionally crosses the centerline, then comes back in hard on me; damn right I'm going to whine and complain. If they did that and caused me to go down, I would want to do more than just complain.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:49 AM
To: cmur-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters Racing
Hello all:
Some mystery whiner writes:
"I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica this week
that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe not the
same one they intended."
****************************************
A few clarifications are in order:
1) The EWEB Windpower Team made no statements. I personally made a light
hearted boast about my team and what we would do at POC. (and we did it by
the way :)
2) No mention was made about the centerline. Check your facts before
looking for irony.
3) Sometimes bad things happen in a race that nobody intends. Thats just
the way it is. Read that release form that you sign before every race:
"Bike racing is an inherently dangerous sport" I don't want to see anybody
get hurt, but sometimes it happens. Was it somebody's fault? usually, it
is. I've been crashed out and injured several times by boneheads doing
stupid things. At the time, I would be pretty upset about it. But is it
appropriate to whine and complain and name names (without naming your own,
BTW) after the fact? No it is not.
p.s. That Ed Roberts is sure fast.....
*******************************************
USC: 44 - Notre Dame: 13 Fight On!!
*******************************************
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
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<HTML><BODY STYLE="font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Scott,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think a few comments are in order:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) It seems that a lot of the messages regarding unsafe riding at POC focus on the EWEB team. Instead of coming out calling fellow racers names and rubbing their noses in your 2nd place finish, you should consider that there may be a grain of truth to what's being said. In the name of the team, maybe show a hint of accountability or, if not accountability, at least a little compassion. I'll be the first to admit I have let the heat of battle get the best of me a few times, and done some stupid stuff because of it. But I won't use that as an excuse. And I've tried to learn from it.</DIV> <DIV>2) OK, I'll give you that one.</DIV> <DIV>3) I realize bicycle racing is inherently dangerous and accept that. I don't accept that "boneheads doing stupid things" needs to be part of that inherent danger. If someone intentionally crosses the centerline, then comes back in hard on me; damn right I'm going to whine and complain. If they did that and caused me to go down, I would want to do more than just complain.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ron</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Scott Goldstein</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:49 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> cmur-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OBRA Chat] Masters Racing</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Hello all:<BR><BR>Some mystery whiner writes:<BR><BR>"I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica this week<BR>that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow<BR>line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe not the<BR>same one they intended."<BR>****************************************<BR>A few clarifications are in order:<BR><BR>1) The EWEB Windpower Team made no statements. I personally made a light<BR>hearted boast about my team and what we would do at POC. (and we did it by<BR>the way :)<BR>2) No mention was made about the centerline. Check your facts before<BR>looking for irony.<BR>3) Sometimes bad things happen in a race that nobody intends. Thats just<BR>the way it is. Read that release form that you sign before every race:<BR>"Bike racing is an inherently dangerous sport" I don't want to see anybody<BR>get hurt, but sometimes it happens. Was it somebody's fault? usually, it<BR>is. I've been crashed out and injured several times by boneheads doing<BR>stupid things. At the time, I would be pretty upset about it. But is it<BR>appropriate to whine and complain and name names (without naming your own,<BR>BTW) after the fact? No it is not. <BR><BR>p.s. That Ed Roberts is sure fast.....<BR><BR><BR>*******************************************<BR>USC: 44 - Notre Dame: 13 Fight On!! <BR>*******************************************<BR><BR>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<BR>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com<BR>To unsubscribe send to obra-<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C2F967.BD50EBE0--
I have had alot of feedback from riders and volunteers about the quality or
lack of quality of the masters field interactions. I have attached some of
those comments.
"I volunteered at the first corner with my kids (ages 4 and 7) and I was
really shocked to hear the differences in comments by racers from each
group. We could hear perfectly well all the swearing and complaining
going on in the Masters field after the finish.
All of the other groups were well behaved at the finish, congratulating
each other, yelling with enthusiasm if they placed well. But within the
Masters group there seemed to be nothing but complaints. Without
upgrade points, without major cash prizes - seems like the group was
really worked up over trivial matters. If bike racing is that
unpleasant, why do it?"
"in a nut shell, I can't think of a race where I was more angry at flagrant
and deliberate breaking of the rules of bike racing....not to mention the
lack of common sense displayed by a handful of shit for brains, cocky, punks
on bikes! The most disturbing part about these two situations was that
these guys never touched the ground themselves and they will all be out
there again next weekend......perhaps to do it all again."
"You want me to rant about the pile up 400M out that cost me an evening in
ER
and about $600 in parts?? (and all of this because someone was sprinting for
20th)"
"Rider
#xxx, along with several other eweb team members, crossed the yellow line
about 4-5 km from the sprint and then abruptly came back into the
peleton near the front. Many riders went down at that moment. He even made
a comment about almost causing a crash in order to get to
the front and do some work to a catch the air force guy off the front. We
responded that he did not have to worry about almost causing a crash,
he most certainly caused a crash. In addition, there were several eweb
members who crossed the line about 1 km from the finish causing another
crash. I only saw the jerseys as they came only to about 6th or 7th spot in
the peleton. I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica
this week that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe
not the same one they intended."
"Rider
xxx, along with several other eweb team members, crossed the yellow line
about 4-5 km from the sprint and then abruptly came back into the
peleton near the front. Many riders went down at that moment. He even made
a comment about almost causing a crash in order to get to
the front and do some work to a catch the air force guy off the front. We
responded that he did not have to worry about almost causing a crash,
he most certainly caused a crash. In addition, there were several eweb
members who crossed the line about 1 km from the finish causing another
crash. I only saw the jerseys as they came only to about 6th or 7th spot in
the peleton. I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica
this week that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe
not the same one they intended.
"The Men's Masters race gets the award for the most carnage of the day.
Apparently, the field sprint was a disaster."
In my race report I said that we all deserved to crash. With 4 miles to go
there was a group of 40 guys 5 abreast going 20mph. Now you have 40 guys
who think they have a shot at winning and some will take risks. That is
not racing, that is a recipe for disaster."
My response echoes the first one, you are out there for fun, you should all
act that way and not like a bunch of xxxxxxxxx
Candi
Hello all:
Some mystery whiner writes:
"I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica this week
that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe not the
same one they intended."
****************************************
A few clarifications are in order:
1) The EWEB Windpower Team made no statements. I personally made a light
hearted boast about my team and what we would do at POC. (and we did it by
the way :)
2) No mention was made about the centerline. Check your facts before
looking for irony.
3) Sometimes bad things happen in a race that nobody intends. Thats just
the way it is. Read that release form that you sign before every race:
"Bike racing is an inherently dangerous sport" I don't want to see anybody
get hurt, but sometimes it happens. Was it somebody's fault? usually, it
is. I've been crashed out and injured several times by boneheads doing
stupid things. At the time, I would be pretty upset about it. But is it
appropriate to whine and complain and name names (without naming your own,
BTW) after the fact? No it is not.
p.s. That Ed Roberts is sure fast.....
*******************************************
USC: 44 - Notre Dame: 13 Fight On!!
*******************************************
I have had alot of feedback from riders and volunteers about the quality or
lack of quality of the masters field interactions. I have attached some of
those comments.
"I volunteered at the first corner with my kids (ages 4 and 7) and I was
really shocked to hear the differences in comments by racers from each
group. We could hear perfectly well all the swearing and complaining
going on in the Masters field after the finish.
All of the other groups were well behaved at the finish, congratulating
each other, yelling with enthusiasm if they placed well. But within the
Masters group there seemed to be nothing but complaints. Without
upgrade points, without major cash prizes - seems like the group was
really worked up over trivial matters. If bike racing is that
unpleasant, why do it?"
"in a nut shell, I can't think of a race where I was more angry at flagrant
and deliberate breaking of the rules of bike racing....not to mention the
lack of common sense displayed by a handful of shit for brains, cocky, punks
on bikes! The most disturbing part about these two situations was that
these guys never touched the ground themselves and they will all be out
there again next weekend......perhaps to do it all again."
"You want me to rant about the pile up 400M out that cost me an evening in
ER
and about $600 in parts?? (and all of this because someone was sprinting for
20th)"
"Rider
#xxx, along with several other eweb team members, crossed the yellow line
about 4-5 km from the sprint and then abruptly came back into the
peleton near the front. Many riders went down at that moment. He even made
a comment about almost causing a crash in order to get to
the front and do some work to a catch the air force guy off the front. We
responded that he did not have to worry about almost causing a crash,
he most certainly caused a crash. In addition, there were several eweb
members who crossed the line about 1 km from the finish causing another
crash. I only saw the jerseys as they came only to about 6th or 7th spot in
the peleton. I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica
this week that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe
not the same one they intended."
"Rider
xxx, along with several other eweb team members, crossed the yellow line
about 4-5 km from the sprint and then abruptly came back into the
peleton near the front. Many riders went down at that moment. He even made
a comment about almost causing a crash in order to get to
the front and do some work to a catch the air force guy off the front. We
responded that he did not have to worry about almost causing a crash,
he most certainly caused a crash. In addition, there were several eweb
members who crossed the line about 1 km from the finish causing another
crash. I only saw the jerseys as they came only to about 6th or 7th spot in
the peleton. I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica
this week that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe
not the same one they intended.
"The Men's Masters race gets the award for the most carnage of the day.
Apparently, the field sprint was a disaster."
In my race report I said that we all deserved to crash. With 4 miles to go
there was a group of 40 guys 5 abreast going 20mph. Now you have 40 guys
who think they have a shot at winning and some will take risks. That is
not racing, that is a recipe for disaster."
My response echoes the first one, you are out there for fun, you should all
act that way and not like a bunch of xxxxxxxxx
Candi
I have had alot of feedback from riders and volunteers about the quality or
lack of quality of the masters field interactions. I have attached some of
those comments.
"I volunteered at the first corner with my kids (ages 4 and 7) and I was
really shocked to hear the differences in comments by racers from each
group. We could hear perfectly well all the swearing and complaining
going on in the Masters field after the finish.
All of the other groups were well behaved at the finish, congratulating
each other, yelling with enthusiasm if they placed well. But within the
Masters group there seemed to be nothing but complaints. Without
upgrade points, without major cash prizes - seems like the group was
really worked up over trivial matters. If bike racing is that
unpleasant, why do it?"
"in a nut shell, I can't think of a race where I was more angry at flagrant
and deliberate breaking of the rules of bike racing....not to mention the
lack of common sense displayed by a handful of shit for brains, cocky, punks
on bikes! The most disturbing part about these two situations was that
these guys never touched the ground themselves and they will all be out
there again next weekend......perhaps to do it all again."
"You want me to rant about the pile up 400M out that cost me an evening in
ER
and about $600 in parts?? (and all of this because someone was sprinting for
20th)"
"Rider
#xxx, along with several other eweb team members, crossed the yellow line
about 4-5 km from the sprint and then abruptly came back into the
peleton near the front. Many riders went down at that moment. He even made
a comment about almost causing a crash in order to get to
the front and do some work to a catch the air force guy off the front. We
responded that he did not have to worry about almost causing a crash,
he most certainly caused a crash. In addition, there were several eweb
members who crossed the line about 1 km from the finish causing another
crash. I only saw the jerseys as they came only to about 6th or 7th spot in
the peleton. I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica
this week that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe
not the same one they intended."
"Rider
xxx, along with several other eweb team members, crossed the yellow line
about 4-5 km from the sprint and then abruptly came back into the
peleton near the front. Many riders went down at that moment. He even made
a comment about almost causing a crash in order to get to
the front and do some work to a catch the air force guy off the front. We
responded that he did not have to worry about almost causing a crash,
he most certainly caused a crash. In addition, there were several eweb
members who crossed the line about 1 km from the finish causing another
crash. I only saw the jerseys as they came only to about 6th or 7th spot in
the peleton. I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica
this week that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe
not the same one they intended.
"The Men's Masters race gets the award for the most carnage of the day.
Apparently, the field sprint was a disaster."
In my race report I said that we all deserved to crash. With 4 miles to go
there was a group of 40 guys 5 abreast going 20mph. Now you have 40 guys
who think they have a shot at winning and some will take risks. That is
not racing, that is a recipe for disaster."
My response echoes the first one, you are out there for fun, you should all
act that way and not like a bunch of xxxxxxxxx
Candi
I have had alot of feedback from riders and volunteers about the quality or
lack of quality of the masters field interactions. I have attached some of
those comments.
"I volunteered at the first corner with my kids (ages 4 and 7) and I was
really shocked to hear the differences in comments by racers from each
group. We could hear perfectly well all the swearing and complaining
going on in the Masters field after the finish.
All of the other groups were well behaved at the finish, congratulating
each other, yelling with enthusiasm if they placed well. But within the
Masters group there seemed to be nothing but complaints. Without
upgrade points, without major cash prizes - seems like the group was
really worked up over trivial matters. If bike racing is that
unpleasant, why do it?"
"in a nut shell, I can't think of a race where I was more angry at flagrant
and deliberate breaking of the rules of bike racing....not to mention the
lack of common sense displayed by a handful of shit for brains, cocky, punks
on bikes! The most disturbing part about these two situations was that
these guys never touched the ground themselves and they will all be out
there again next weekend......perhaps to do it all again."
"You want me to rant about the pile up 400M out that cost me an evening in
ER
and about $600 in parts?? (and all of this because someone was sprinting for
20th)"
"Rider
#558, along with several other eweb team members, crossed the yellow line
about 4-5 km from the sprint and then abruptly came back into the
peleton near the front. Many riders went down at that moment. He even made
a comment about almost causing a crash in order to get to
the front and do some work to a catch the air force guy off the front. We
responded that he did not have to worry about almost causing a crash,
he most certainly caused a crash. In addition, there were several eweb
members who crossed the line about 1 km from the finish causing another
crash. I only saw the jerseys as they came only to about 6th or 7th spot in
the peleton. I find it ironic that this was the same team stating on topica
this week that we would be given a lesson in perfect team tactics and yellow
line behavior at the POC. There certainly is a lesson here. Maybe
not the same one they intended."
My response echoes the first one, you are out there for fun, you should all
act that way and not like a bunch of xxxxxxxxx
Candi
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