Re: Centerline & Masters Racing

Dave Palmer

2003-04-03

I agree with Eric and David. I think POC is a good course, and though I was

out of town for this years race, I can tell you that there were multiple

early attacks last year. A group with a mix of 35+ and 45+ riders was able

to get away in the middle of the race, and they were never caught. There

were attempts to chase them down, but it didn't work. It saddens me to hear

of the behavior at this years event because I've always felt that the

Masters fields , though very competitive, were always the safest, and most

behaved group to ride with. I am curious that there weren't more DQ's for

centerline violations, but I understand the difficulty in identifying the

cheaters from a follow car. (Sorry if the name hurts, but crossing the

centerline to advance your position is Cheating!). Good (and safe) team

tactics might require you to start working towards the front with a couple

of laps to go. Don't wait till the end of the race to try to get a bunch of

riders to the front for a sprint. Anyone who later argued with, or berated

an official, or used profanity around the volunteers and their kids, should

at least be DQ'd, if not given a lengthy suspension. We can't allow the

behavior of a few individuals to force us out of good race venues, or cause

us to lose good race officials like Nancy Magnus.



Dave Palmer

Capitol Velo



----- Original Message -----

From: "Eric Kytola" <eric.k-@kingdesign.com>

To: "'Obra (E-mail)" <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 2:13 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline & Masters Racing





 three other words:

attack attack attack



the POC is a great course.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@cognisurf.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline & Masters Racing





Three words: rolling road closure... at least for the bigger fields.





David Auker wrote:

 Brad Cockman, DC, said:



 On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super

narrow

   roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is a

prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck of

the woods?



I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the

valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.



What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you

want

to make it?



David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."



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Eric Kytola

2003-04-03

three other words:

attack attack attack



the POC is a great course.



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@cognisurf.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline & Masters Racing





Three words: rolling road closure... at least for the bigger fields.





David Auker wrote:

 Brad Cockman, DC, said:



 On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super narrow

roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is a

prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck of

the woods?



I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the

valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.



What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you

want

to make it?



David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



mark.sc-@milliman.com

2003-04-02

Have you actually promoted a race? This is not very easily done!



Mark Schwyhart







bra-@cognisurf.com

04/02/03 02:05 PM



To: ob-@topica.com @ INTERNET

cc: (bcc: Mark Schwyhart/PTLD/M&R)

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline & Masters Racing



Three words: rolling road closure... at least for the bigger fields.





David Auker wrote:

 Brad Cockman, DC, said:

  On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super narrow

roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is a

prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck of

the woods?

I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the > valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.

 What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you > want

to make it?

 David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."

  To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



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Brad Cockman, DC

2003-04-02

...exactly why I lean towards putting on off-road events.



being on the BOD for Cascade I believe my sentencing starts July 9, 2003

;-) (who invented these things anyway? Emoticons??)





mike.m-@obra.org wrote:

 People that suggest rolling closures should be IMMEDIATELY be sentenced

to organizing such an event. Although they look great at the Euro races

on OLN in the US it is mostly impossible. Many counties barely allow

bike races at all and definitely will not allow one that closes the

road. Arranging for and paying the personnel to accomplish a rolling

enclosure adds to the difficulty.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@cognisurf.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline & Masters Racing



Three words: rolling road closure... at least for the bigger fields.





David Auker wrote:

 Brad Cockman, DC, said:



 On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to

safe

  riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super

narrow

  roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is

a

  prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck

of

  the woods?



I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the

valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.



What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you



 want

to make it?



David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



mike.m-@obra.org

2003-04-02

People that suggest rolling closures should be IMMEDIATELY be sentenced

to organizing such an event. Although they look great at the Euro races

on OLN in the US it is mostly impossible. Many counties barely allow

bike races at all and definitely will not allow one that closes the

road. Arranging for and paying the personnel to accomplish a rolling

enclosure adds to the difficulty.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@cognisurf.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline & Masters Racing



Three words: rolling road closure... at least for the bigger fields.





David Auker wrote:

 Brad Cockman, DC, said:



 On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to

safe

  riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super

narrow

  roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is

a

  prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck

of

  the woods?



I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the

valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.



What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you



 want

to make it?



David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Chris Bright

2003-04-02

Four words back at ya: Sixty dollar entry fees.



POC is outstanding and safe. Rolling enclosures are extremely expensive, just ask Larry Smith. We all need to respect the centerline with officials enforcing when they can and all of us self-policing it when they can't. From what I can gather, one field had a problem and six others didn't. Every now and again shit happens that causes a field to get overly aggressive and/or twitchy and bad things result. Let's all take a lesson from it and move on. None of us wants to end our day in the ER, so hopefully we'll all race a little smarter next time.



Chris



-----Original Message-----

From: Brad Cockman, DC [mailto:bra-@cognisurf.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:58 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Centerline & Masters Racing



Three words: rolling road closure... at least for the bigger fields.





David Auker wrote:

 Brad Cockman, DC, said:



 On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super narrow

roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is a

prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck of

the woods?



I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the

valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.



What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you

want

to make it?



David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



Brad Cockman, DC

2003-04-02

Three words: rolling road closure... at least for the bigger fields.





David Auker wrote:

 Brad Cockman, DC, said:



 On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super narrow

roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is a

prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck of

the woods?



I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the

valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.



What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you

want

to make it?



David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."



David Auker

2003-04-02

Brad Cockman, DC, said:



 On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super narrow

roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is a

prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck of

the woods?



I happen to LOVE that course! True, without any wind, it can be a

pack-keeper-together, but wind is common in that part of the valley...it's

not uncommon for the field to be fairly shredded at the finish.



What would be your "perfect" course? What is "safe?" How tame do you want

to make it?



David

"A bit defensive, since I'm the founder of POC..."