Jerald M Powell

OK, here's the deal. The Chief Judge is responsible for figuring out

and then posting the results. If s/he needs help to get them posted,

s/he'll ask for it. On Sunday, for instance, there wasn't a working

camera available until the last couple of finishes, and even when

there is, you're entirely right... rain jackets, torn numbers,

numbers on the wrong side, rider sits up rendering number

indecipherable... all these things and more make the camera less than

infallible.   The judge and a few recruits pick places the old

fashioned way... by watching the finish most of the time. Unlike

Sunday, there is a camera for a back up. Figuring it all out is

tedious and exacting. Hassling the Judge before the results are

posted can get you penalized if the referee is a wee bit cranky just

then and s/he happens to observe it. Now, there's a fifteen minute

period AFTER the results are posted in which you can protest your

finish, present evidence of your proper placing, and get it changed.

If you miss that fifteen minute period, you should be out of luck.

The judge's order of finish is final. A protest of foul riding, or

of any other irregularity in the race (generally a rule infraction)

must also be made within that 15 minute period and a fee paid. A

conference of the officials will be convened by the chief referee to

rule on the allegations... but that doesn't even involve the judge,

who shouldn't be hassled by that stuff at all. By the way, the

officials don't hand out prizes. That's the race organizer's job.

Again hassling the Chief Referee for your prizes (unless you are due

a prize and the organizer either shorts you or refuses to deliver)

will not contribute to the referee's general sunny demeanor.



Jerry





At 4:32 PM -0800 04/02/03, MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1) wrote:

 This is a super idea! ....from Scott Goldstein...."Nobody is allowed to

speak to ANYBODY outside of the team for 10

minutes after the finish of a race."



I am new to road racing and have been encouraged by officials to speak up if

I think I placed in the top 15. On the other hand, it seems to add chaos to

the finish area.



I'd like to give the officials enough time (probably more than 10 minutes)

to post the top 15 racers. Of course they will have difficulty identifying

all the racers because of camera angles and numbers that cannot clearly be

read. But they usually seem to get at least half the racers numbers and the

correct order. The rest they fill in with jersey/helmet colors. Then it is

up to the integrity of the remaining top 15 racers to identify the missings.



Any ideas/rules that make the volunteers' jobs more easy and fun are very

good ideas.



I volunteered at the OSU road race. Somebody delivered pizza to me at corner

#2! I didn't expect that but it was a nice surprise!



Matt





-----Original Message-----

From: Scott Goldstein [mailto:sgold-@mail.bit-by-bit.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:48 PM

To: Steve-@clark.wa.gov; cmur-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Cc: mag-@lclark.edu

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Treatment of officials and volunteers, general

behavior





The 800.com team (RIP) gave me a terrific idea a few years ago for a Team

race policy. It is really simple:



*****Nobody is allowed to speak to ANYBODY outside of the team for 10

minutes after the finish of a race.******



This simple idea allows everybody to calm down, get their heart rates below

100, and generally compose themselves back into rational human beings as

opposed to slavering torqued up animals who just finished a bike race.



Perhaps OBRA should request (or require) a 10 minute "calm down" period

before barking at officials after a race.



Scott











*******************************************

USC: 44    -    Notre Dame: 13 Fight On!!

*******************************************



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

--

Jerald M. Powell, AICP

Community Planning

1445 SW Harrison St.

Portland, Oregon 97201

Voice: (503) 222 7173

Fax: (503) 222 6026

cel: (503) 799 7823

email: jpow-@spiritone.com

Eric Kytola

I think the OBRA van, specifically the hard working officials inside it,

need a few bouncers. I offer myself, clad in the stinkiest jersey in Oregon,

to protect and serve the van when not racing. seriously, lets have a few

people ring the back of the van to "greet" those with complaints and

questions.



we should have Nancy's address. does she like chocolate or flowers??



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:14 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Treatment of officials and volunteers, general

behavior





Brad

Thanks for the kind words for the volunteer and officiating crew. Nancy

Magnus is one of the finest judges that I have ever worked with. She is

meticulous at placing every rider she can and often makes great suggestions

to make things work better. She is also a dear personal friend. After

working the POC she sent me an email stating she would work no more races.

She is the 3rd person this year to 'retire' from officiating, and this

leaves us very shorthanded of experienced personnel. There are races that I

would like to ride that we have no other people to offer. (sorry, whine

whine)

We have to treat everyone, fellow riders included better.



Candi



ps Nancy's email is mag-@lclark.edu maybe you all can get her to change

her mind





----- Original Message -----

From: "Brad Cockman, DC" <bra-@cognisurf.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:35 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA CHAT] Centerline & Masters Racing





 I'm still counting my blessings that I decided on the 3's race versus

the Master's, now for more than a couple of reasons.



I was at the finish line ringing the bell helping out poor Nancy a

little, all alone in the OBRA truck trying to do 12 jobs at once. As

she's looking at video trying to pick placings from the various races

that were finishing she was under an Iraqui bombardment from racers

bitching to her for one reason or another or trying to find out where

they had finished RIGHT after they had crossed the finish line. Nancy

somehow maintained her composure when she had every right to tell these

people to go straight to hell. The BBQ potato chips must have had some

kind of sedative added to them.



Damn people, leave the poor OBRA volunteers alone. If you have a

legitimate complaint find the chief referee. Flying off the handle like

a couple of the Master's did after the crash is pretty embarassing and

just plain old not nice when you're talking to the wrong person to begin

with. If sh*t like this keeps up we'll soon be showing up at races and

wondering where all the yellow shirts went.



On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super narrow

roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big fields is a

prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in that neck of

the woods?







Ron Magnus wrote:

 



Hello all,



How ironic; for the past two weeks there has been such a plethora of

noise about centerline violations and the reasons one way or the other

they occurred. For the record, I was made aware of the original cause

of this thread back on the morning of March 17. I was conducting a

class in the Los Angeles area. One of the students was a Pro racer who

had been at the race in Arizona and gave me some of the details such as

they were first hand. The following day and onwards OBRA chat erupted

with so many comments mostly constructive that I felt pretty good about

the way people viewed this important matter especially since some of the

long time racers/riders could recall a similar situation with the same

results that occurred in Washington County a good number of years ago.



Fast forward to last weekend's Piece of Cake Masters event. Two age

graded categories in one field consisting of 54 riders take to the road.

Not unusual compared to some of the other larger fields of the day on

the same venue. Since this event went the way of many Masters events

where there is little "real racing" the field size stayed pretty much

the same until the start of the final lap. Now some individuals are

getting anxious, about 4k from the finish line two individuals cross the

centerline in a left turn on one of the narrow streets (makes no

difference if it's a significant crossing or not), there is a lot of

loud comments from the field, the two riders move quickly back into the

pack, so quickly that it causes a rider to loose control right away and

then send another rider to the pavement incurring head, shoulder and

chest injuries. Let's now move forward to the 400 meter region from the

finish. Our pack of Masters has pretty much regrouped and is chomping

at the bit for the final sprint, once again some riders are observed

moving left across the centerline incurring the attention of the pack.

Almost at the same time two riders on the right side of the pack start

to sprint and knock into each other, they go down, one rider suffers a

significant facial injury cutting an artery.



Today we see on OBRA CHAT that the Masters field has further

"distinguished" themselves with obscene language that can easily be

heard by corner marshals and bystanders young and old.........ARE YOU

HAVING FUN?????



Folks this is supposed to be a fun hobby.....it sure doesn't appear that

way these days, such a not so nice example to be presenting to others.



I suppose you can chastise me as much as you want for making these

comments as I normally sit back and just read. Keep in mind that the

comments noted above are observations noted by many, so be careful on

your responses lest you put your foot farther in your mouth.



Ron Magnus; Portland, OR

503-244-4866

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Anthony McCray

I agree that we as racers sometimes seem to get mixed signals from the

officials. I didn't see first hand what happened after the masters race,

but we are all told that if we think we may have been in the top 15 we

need to let the officials know. At the same time, the officials often

make us feel like they don't have time to talk to us. After the 4/5 race,

someone told us to talk to Geri after the race, not the officials in the

OBRA truck. I believe that Geri was driving the follow car for that race.

Is it (or should it) be standard that if we were in the top 15 we talk to

the official for our race, and that official is the person in the follow

car?



-Tony



On Wed, 2 Apr 2003, MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1) wrote:



 This is a super idea! ....from Scott Goldstein...."Nobody is allowed to

speak to ANYBODY outside of the team for 10

minutes after the finish of a race."



I am new to road racing and have been encouraged by officials to speak up if

I think I placed in the top 15. On the other hand, it seems to add chaos to

the finish area.

MARTEL,MATT (HP-Corvallis,ex1)

This is a super idea! ....from Scott Goldstein...."Nobody is allowed to

speak to ANYBODY outside of the team for 10

minutes after the finish of a race."



I am new to road racing and have been encouraged by officials to speak up if

I think I placed in the top 15. On the other hand, it seems to add chaos to

the finish area.



I'd like to give the officials enough time (probably more than 10 minutes)

to post the top 15 racers. Of course they will have difficulty identifying

all the racers because of camera angles and numbers that cannot clearly be

read. But they usually seem to get at least half the racers numbers and the

correct order. The rest they fill in with jersey/helmet colors. Then it is

up to the integrity of the remaining top 15 racers to identify the missings.



Any ideas/rules that make the volunteers' jobs more easy and fun are very

good ideas.



I volunteered at the OSU road race. Somebody delivered pizza to me at corner

#2! I didn't expect that but it was a nice surprise!



Matt





-----Original Message-----

From: Scott Goldstein [mailto:sgold-@mail.bit-by-bit.com]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:48 PM

To: Steve-@clark.wa.gov; cmur-@obra.org; ob-@topica.com

Cc: mag-@lclark.edu

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Treatment of officials and volunteers, general

behavior





The 800.com team (RIP) gave me a terrific idea a few years ago for a Team

race policy. It is really simple:



*****Nobody is allowed to speak to ANYBODY outside of the team for 10

minutes after the finish of a race.******



This simple idea allows everybody to calm down, get their heart rates below

100, and generally compose themselves back into rational human beings as

opposed to slavering torqued up animals who just finished a bike race.



Perhaps OBRA should request (or require) a 10 minute "calm down" period

before barking at officials after a race.



Scott











*******************************************

USC: 44    -    Notre Dame: 13 Fight On!!

*******************************************



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Steve-@clark.wa.gov

I would totally agree with that Candy. There really is no reason to be

hounding the volunteers at these races. These races are not life and death

events. There are purely for the fun of everyone involved and I would hope

the volunteers would find them fun as well.

However, I doubt that anyone getting yelled at or hounded for results could

find that fun.



If there is anyway that we can pursuade Nancy to come back, please let us

know Nancy.



Steve



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmur-@obra.org]

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 3:14 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Treatment of officials and volunteers, general behavior





Brad

Thanks for the kind words for the volunteer and officiating crew. Nancy

Magnus is one of the finest judges that I have ever worked with. She is

meticulous at placing every rider she can and often makes great suggestions

to make things work better. She is also a dear personal friend. After

working the POC she sent me an email stating she would work no more races.

She is the 3rd person this year to 'retire' from officiating, and this

leaves us very shorthanded of experienced personnel. There are races that I

would like to ride that we have no other people to offer. (sorry, whine

whine)

We have to treat everyone, fellow riders included better.



Candi



ps Nancy's email is mag-@lclark.edu maybe you all can get her to change

her mind





----- Original Message -----

From: "Brad Cockman, DC" <bra-@cognisurf.com>

To: <ob-@topica.com>

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:35 PM

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] [OBRA CHAT] Centerline & Masters Racing





 I'm still counting my blessings that I decided on the 3's race versus

the Master's, now for more than a couple of reasons.



I was at the finish line ringing the bell helping out poor Nancy a

little, all alone in the OBRA truck trying to do 12 jobs at once. As

she's looking at video trying to pick placings from the various races

that were finishing she was under an Iraqui bombardment from racers

bitching to her for one reason or another or trying to find out where

they had finished RIGHT after they had crossed the finish line. Nancy

somehow maintained her composure when she had every right to tell

these people to go straight to hell. The BBQ potato chips must have

had some kind of sedative added to them.



Damn people, leave the poor OBRA volunteers alone. If you have a

legitimate complaint find the chief referee. Flying off the handle

like a couple of the Master's did after the crash is pretty

embarassing and just plain old not nice when you're talking to the

wrong person to begin with. If sh*t like this keeps up we'll soon be

showing up at races and wondering where all the yellow shirts went.



On another note, the layout of POC doesn't really lend itself to safe

riding conditions. Flat course which keeps packs together, super

narrow roads with little or no shoulder (and dead vermin) and big

fields is a prescription for disaster in my book. Any better roads in

that neck of the woods?







Ron Magnus wrote:

 



Hello all,



How ironic; for the past two weeks there has been such a plethora of

noise about centerline violations and the reasons one way or the

other they occurred. For the record, I was made aware of the

original cause of this thread back on the morning of March 17. I

was conducting a class in the Los Angeles area. One of the students

was a Pro racer who had been at the race in Arizona and gave me some

of the details such as they were first hand. The following day and

onwards OBRA chat erupted with so many comments mostly constructive

that I felt pretty good about the way people viewed this important

matter especially since some of the long time racers/riders could

recall a similar situation with the same results that occurred in

Washington County a good number of years ago.



Fast forward to last weekend's Piece of Cake Masters event. Two age

graded categories in one field consisting of 54 riders take to the

road. Not unusual compared to some of the other larger fields of

the day on the same venue. Since this event went the way of many

Masters events where there is little "real racing" the field size

stayed pretty much the same until the start of the final lap. Now

some individuals are getting anxious, about 4k from the finish line

two individuals cross the centerline in a left turn on one of the

narrow streets (makes no difference if it's a significant crossing

or not), there is a lot of loud comments from the field, the two

riders move quickly back into the pack, so quickly that it causes a

rider to loose control right away and then send another rider to the

pavement incurring head, shoulder and chest injuries. Let's now

move forward to the 400 meter region from the finish. Our pack of

Masters has pretty much regrouped and is chomping at the bit for the

final sprint, once again some riders are observed moving left across

the centerline incurring the attention of the pack. Almost at the

same time two riders on the right side of the pack start to sprint

and knock into each other, they go down, one rider suffers a

significant facial injury cutting an artery.



Today we see on OBRA CHAT that the Masters field has further

"distinguished" themselves with obscene language that can easily be

heard by corner marshals and bystanders young and old.........ARE

YOU HAVING FUN?????



Folks this is supposed to be a fun hobby.....it sure doesn't appear

that way these days, such a not so nice example to be presenting to

others.



I suppose you can chastise me as much as you want for making these

comments as I normally sit back and just read. Keep in mind that

the comments noted above are observations noted by many, so be

careful on your responses lest you put your foot farther in your

mouth.



Ron Magnus; Portland, OR

503-244-4866

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com