Don Person

It most definitely was in Oregon. It was the Banana Belt Series when it was

still being run out of Champoeg State Park. The 35+cat 4 races had 20-25

entrants.



 Don Person wrote:

"When I became a Master 11 years ago there where 35+ and 35+ Cat 4

races."



I doubt that this was in Oregon. It has been rare (if ever) for there

to be Masters races limited to Cat. 4 only in Oregon. Certainly 11

years ago there were not enough racers in Oregon to do this. This has

been done in other areas of the country, generally areas with larger

populations. There may now be enough riders in Oregon to hold a

separate field for Masters Cat. 4/5 but that entails adding a separate

race and the increased cost attendant with that. At the same time Cat.

1/2 fields are often so small that many race organizers are instead

doing Cat. 1/2/3 fields. Wouldn't it make more sense to take the Cat.

1/2 riders in the Masters age group out of the Masters field and add

them into the Cat 1/2 field keeping the number of separate races the

same rather than adding another race?



When I started racing 30+ years ago there was no Cat 4 or 5. Categories

only went to 3. Many races only had a single field, all abilities and

ages lumped together. The first race I rode in had National team

members and myself (ultimate newbie, cheap heavy bike, license bought at

the registration table) all mixed in the same group. Nobody wanted to

stay a Cat 3 any longer then they had to. If races had a separate

Masters field (it was called Veterans then and was always 40+) it had

only 4 or 5 guys who were really slow and there was a huge disparity of

ability so most Vets races looked a lot more like time trials. I figured

that by the time I got to be 40+ I would be able to beat everybody in

that group. Unfortunately a bunch of other guys got to be 40+ too and a

bunch of them started racing bikes like it was a new thing or something.

Sometimes they act like they are going to going to the Olympics or the

Tour of France or something.



Life changes.



Mike Murray

Don Person - Race Director

Cascade Cream Puff 100 mile Mt. Bike Race

http://www.puff100.com

cc-@puff100.com

mike.m-@obra.org

Don Person [mailto:do-@themudzone.com]wrote:

"When I became a Master 11 years ago there where 35+ and 35+ Cat 4

races."



I doubt that this was in Oregon. It has been rare (if ever) for there

to be Masters races limited to Cat. 4 only in Oregon. Certainly 11

years ago there were not enough racers in Oregon to do this. This has

been done in other areas of the country, generally areas with larger

populations. There may now be enough riders in Oregon to hold a

separate field for Masters Cat. 4/5 but that entails adding a separate

race and the increased cost attendant with that. At the same time Cat.

1/2 fields are often so small that many race organizers are instead

doing Cat. 1/2/3 fields. Wouldn't it make more sense to take the Cat.

1/2 riders in the Masters age group out of the Masters field and add

them into the Cat 1/2 field keeping the number of separate races the

same rather than adding another race?



When I started racing 30+ years ago there was no Cat 4 or 5. Categories

only went to 3. Many races only had a single field, all abilities and

ages lumped together. The first race I rode in had National team

members and myself (ultimate newbie, cheap heavy bike, license bought at

the registration table) all mixed in the same group. Nobody wanted to

stay a Cat 3 any longer then they had to. If races had a separate

Masters field (it was called Veterans then and was always 40+) it had

only 4 or 5 guys who were really slow and there was a huge disparity of

ability so most Vets races looked a lot more like time trials. I figured

that by the time I got to be 40+ I would be able to beat everybody in

that group. Unfortunately a bunch of other guys got to be 40+ too and a

bunch of them started racing bikes like it was a new thing or something.

Sometimes they act like they are going to going to the Olympics or the

Tour of France or something.



Life changes.



Mike Murray

Peter Murphy

Hey Larry,



I've seen Cat 1 racers "water the tulips". Your Cat # doesn't mean crap for

your character.



Pete



 From: llsm-@veloski.com

Reply-To: llsm-@veloski.com

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Masters racers....grow up

Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 18:45:02 -0800



Sorry to hear that the older members of OBRA still DON'T GET IT!!!



Here's what I mean....



April 2000, Brownsville Stage, Tour of Willamette---the entire "Masters"

field decides to stop and water the flowers in Coburg (across from the

fire station, the grade school and the local church); it was less than

10km from the start of the stage. I could offer no excuse to county

officials to explain away their self-absorbed and juvenile behavior;

there were plenty of sani-cans as well as lavatory facilities at the

Camp Harlow start. Result---Tour of Willamette was no longer welcome in

the city of Coburg.



Perhaps it's time to modify the definition of a Masters racer. Maybe

you don't get to be a Masters racer until you've made it beyond Cat 4

status or until you compete in at least 15 road races with center-line

rules enforced. Or maybe it will take a lot of peer pressure to

admonish poor sports to grow-up and enjoy the wind in their face for the

sake of participating in one of life's greatest sports.



All I really know for sure, is that life is too short to be doing stupid

stuff in the "name" of competition; stuff that hurts others needlessly.





Take care of each other out there...protect your front wheel...and ride

like the wind...



Larry



PS....And the real topper to the whole mess; you guys burned Nancy in

ways that we'll never understand. She shared your passion for the sport

through her dedicated and diligent service as a finish-line judge, too

bad you abused her to the point of her departure from the sport. She'll

be missed!!



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

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Don Person

When I became a Master 11 years ago there where 35+ and 35+ Cat 4 races. I

found it refreshing to be in a pack where everyone was more concerned about

their kids' soccer game and next week's business trip instead of how many

miles they rode last week and how many they will do next week.



The racers were more concerned about being able to go to work on Monday

than winning the sprint today.



 Larry Smith wrote:

"Maybe you don't get to be a Masters racer until you've made it beyond

Cat 4

status or until you compete in at least 15 road races with center-line

rules enforced."



This is the second time this has been suggested to us this week.

Unfortunately it ignores the fact that a major reason why there is

Masters racing at all is because there are too many Cat. 4/5 riders (as

well as Cat. 3) and we need to give them another opportunity to race.

Those riders who are 30+ who are concerned about riding in a race with

inexperienced riders should be admonished to ride with the race where

ability rather than age is used as a selector, i.e. the Cat. 3 or Cat.

1/2 race.



Or maybe we shouldn't let anyone race until they have had a minimum

number of races experience. Does that circular argument work for

anyone?



Mike Murray

Don Person - Race Director

Cascade Cream Puff 100 mile Mt. Bike Race

http://www.puff100.com

cc-@puff100.com

mike.m-@obra.org

Larry Smith wrote:

"Maybe you don't get to be a Masters racer until you've made it beyond

Cat 4

status or until you compete in at least 15 road races with center-line

rules enforced."



This is the second time this has been suggested to us this week.

Unfortunately it ignores the fact that a major reason why there is

Masters racing at all is because there are too many Cat. 4/5 riders (as

well as Cat. 3) and we need to give them another opportunity to race.

Those riders who are 30+ who are concerned about riding in a race with

inexperienced riders should be admonished to ride with the race where

ability rather than age is used as a selector, i.e. the Cat. 3 or Cat.

1/2 race.



Or maybe we shouldn't let anyone race until they have had a minimum

number of races experience. Does that circular argument work for

anyone?



Mike Murray

llsm-@veloski.com

Sorry to hear that the older members of OBRA still DON'T GET IT!!!



Here's what I mean....



April 2000, Brownsville Stage, Tour of Willamette---the entire "Masters"

field decides to stop and water the flowers in Coburg (across from the

fire station, the grade school and the local church); it was less than

10km from the start of the stage. I could offer no excuse to county

officials to explain away their self-absorbed and juvenile behavior;

there were plenty of sani-cans as well as lavatory facilities at the

Camp Harlow start. Result---Tour of Willamette was no longer welcome in

the city of Coburg.



Perhaps it's time to modify the definition of a Masters racer. Maybe

you don't get to be a Masters racer until you've made it beyond Cat 4

status or until you compete in at least 15 road races with center-line

rules enforced. Or maybe it will take a lot of peer pressure to

admonish poor sports to grow-up and enjoy the wind in their face for the

sake of participating in one of life's greatest sports.



All I really know for sure, is that life is too short to be doing stupid

stuff in the "name" of competition; stuff that hurts others needlessly.





Take care of each other out there...protect your front wheel...and ride

like the wind...



Larry



PS....And the real topper to the whole mess; you guys burned Nancy in

ways that we'll never understand. She shared your passion for the sport

through her dedicated and diligent service as a finish-line judge, too

bad you abused her to the point of her departure from the sport. She'll

be missed!!