joec@aracnet.com
Dont forget Tommy Simpson and the amphetamine era. That was 1967.
This should help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling
Joe
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 14:08:19 -0800, Mike Richardson
wrote:
> Could it have been '92? We lived in Germany that year and chased the
> Tour into Italy one long weekend. We waited at the top of a pass to
> see them come up, and Greg didn't look too good at all! I thought he
> might be sick or after-effects of being shot - but now it starts to
> make a different sort of sense.
>
> Mike
>
> On Jan 18, 2013, at 1:56 PM, jon.ragsdale@comcast.net [1] wrote:
>
> According to statements by LeMond, doping started earlier. He saw it
> starting when he won his two Tours in a row, and then when he dropped
> out of the Tour in 91 (I think it was 91) he couldn't keep up with the
> dopers.
>
> -------------------------
> FROM: "Dan"
> TO: obra@list.obra.org [3]
> SENT: Friday, January 18, 2013 9:26:50 AM
> SUBJECT: [OBRA Chat] Lance Supporters
>
> I don't follow professional cycling ultra close but do enjoy watching
> it and such. Looking at the time splits that he won many of his Tours
> and then googling the people that were 2nd/3rd/4th their names come up
> in Doping Scandals at some point in their career Most of those claim
> they started doping to keep up with Lance and Lance claims he started
> Doping to beat the others. So what came first the chicken or the egg?
> Were they already Doping and Lance wanted to play with the big boys so
> he started Doping but had a much better system with better results? Or
> did he start and then others followed to play with Lance?
>
> Quickly looking at numbers this is where I get confused.
> (D) = Doping Scandal at some point and while they might not have
> admitted to doping during that year/race hard to say they didn't do it
> earlier just didn't get caught.
>
> 1999(D) : 7 min 37 seconds over Zulle (D) / 10 min 26 second over
> Escartin (D)
> 2000 (D): won by 6 min 2 seconds over Ullrich (D) / 10 min 4 sec over
> Beloki (D)
> 2001 (D): 6 min 44 seconds over Ullrich (D) / 9 min 5 sec over Beloki
> (D)
> 2002 (D) : 7 min 17 sec over Beloki (D) / 8 min 17 sec over Rumsas (D)
>
> 2003 (D) : 1 min 1 sec over Ullrich (D) / 4 min 14 sec over Vinkourov
> (D)
> 2004 (D): 6 min 19 sec over Kloden (D) / 6 min 40 sec over Basso (D)
> 2005 (D): 4 min 40 sec over Basso (D) / 6 min 21 sec over Ullrich (D)
>
> Other than 2003 the win times are pretty consistent. Brings me to
> something Armstrong said of
>
> "OW: Did you feel in any way that you were cheating? You did not feel
> you were cheating taking banned drugs?
> LA: "At the time, no. I kept hearing I'm a drug cheat, I'm a cheat,
> I'm a cheater. I went in and just looked up the definition of cheat
> and the definition of cheat is to gain an advantage on a rival or foe
> that they don't have. I didn't view it that way. I viewed it as a
> level playing field."
>
> Goes back to who started the doping, did he start it and others
> followed suit or were others doping and for him to gain him
> dream/goal/whatever of winning was to dope so he doped is hard to say
> and I don't think anyone will ever really know.
>
> That being said, to claim that he still wasn't an amazing athlete yet
> keeping a pretty steady win time against other dopers also goes to
> what one of the other OBRA people said of "Won't make a winner out of
> a second rate athlete". That doesn't mean the he isn't a cheater,
> morally loose, poor sportsman etc etc... but when it comes to his
> physical ability as an athlete dope or no dope he is still up at the
> top end of the list of crazy good athletic ability. That being said
> that is about the only list that he might be near the top on most of
> the others he ends up near the bottom.
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Dan Davis wrote:
> I just don’t understand why he’s being crucified for the sins of
> a generation? And I don’t know how many times I have seen “the
> worst doping scandal in sports” really? Are our memories that short?
> Festina, T-mobile, the big Spanish thing, 3 guys from Mapi going 1,
> 2, 3 at PR, and oh ya the USSR in the 80’s! do we need more?
> Was it right? No it wasn’t. Did he cheat his sponsors, yes but he
> also made them a ton of money that they were happy to take!
> How many times will someone in the business would do whatever it
> takes for a sale and call it good business? Ya all the time!!
> So yes it was bad what Lance did but he should not have to pay for
> all the dopers of that generation!
> Dan…
>
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