training comments and a question

David Kerchinsky

2003-04-07

Your guiding principles are good and I have one thing to add...stretching.

Do it correctly and it will help aid in muscle growth, strength, and prevent

injuries. I have also found that it aids in recovery time.







David Kerchinsky

North River Racing

Camas Day Races July 27 & Aug 3

Southwest Washington's Cycling team!

http://www.northriverracing.org











 From: Jim VanSchoonhoven <vans-@budget.net>

Reply-To: vans-@budget.net

To: Obra <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: [OBRA Chat] training comments and a question

Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:17:21 -0700



I have been watching posts on this list for years and decided to ask some

questions and voice an opinion. I have noticed from talking to many racers

and from reading most of the USCF training manuals the common believe is

that Cat 2 racers and above must put in huge amounts of time and miles in

order to be good.



First off, I am wondering how much time or how many miles you Cat 2 racers

and above are putting in? I am expecting big numbers. This is just for my

information in some things I am working on.



I am asking this because based on my experience and a ton of studying 100s

of books and 1000s of articles from many different sports, I have a totally

different concept of what brings about the best in an athlete, and it does

not point to lots of hours on a bike or lots of miles each week. I believe

a

person could be a Cat 2 or Cat 1 racer and do well with 10-12 hours a week

and maybe even LESS.



I know I could never get certified by the USCF based on what I am going to

say, but I am training all kinds of athletes and have great results based

on

the following principles and I have applied them to cycling.



First, and foremost it is genetics that makes a great athlete, you either

got it or you don?t and if you don?t, you can train forever and do

everything right and you will never be a Cat 2, if you do not have the

right

genetics.   I have heard too many people that believe if they only had

enough time they could be Lance Armstrong. Forget that, have fun with what

you got. Not every horse can win the Kentucky Derby!   On the other hand

don

?t blame bad results on a lack of time. Strive to be the best you can be.



Second , even in endurance sports, it is speed and strength that is more

important to improving your fitness performance then having more endurance.

So once you can ride the length of time your event will last, you are

better

off working on going faster rather than further. Don?t take this out of

context, you must first be able to ride your bike the amount of time the

race will last at least once or twice a week, if you can do that you have

enough endurance. Work on intervals and building strength. I know this may

not line up with what the USCF teaches, but there is a ton of research

backing this up.



This may surprise people but VO2 max has nothing to do with who wins

endurance races. An example of this is a study done on elite marathon

runners. First they tested every ones VO2 max. Then they ran the race,

they thought the people with the highest VO2 max would win the race. If VO2

max was an indicator of endurance that is what would have happened. They

did not win; in fact there was no correlation at all to how people placed

and their VO2 max. But here is the shocker!!! They ran a 40 meter dash

and

guess what they got??? Almost a 100% correlation, the fastest guy in the

40-meter dash won the marathon and the slowest guy in the 40-meter dash

lost

the marathon. Notice even Lance is training with a POWER METER!!! Many

studies in other endurance sports have shown an increase in strength alone

increases your endurance. Studies in Cross country skiing have similar

findings.



Third, the proper general cycling skills can give you more improvement than

long hours in the saddle; this would, including pedaling form and proper

cadence. Increase your pedaling efficiency and you will greatly enhance

your endurance and your speed.



Fourth, the proper race specific tactics and skills many times are more

important to enhancing performance then hours in the saddle. This would

include team tactics and personal tactics. Knowing when to breakaway and

when to draft and how to do each of these things can be more important than

adding more miles on the bike.



Fifth and I believe the most over looked aspect in training athletes and

cyclist are perhaps the worst at doing this is!!! REST!!! REST!!! REST!!!

Cyclist talk a lot about rest but few actually do it.



I know Mountain bike racing is not the same as road racing, but they are

both endurance sports. I am using this only as an example of the

importance

of resting, my son, Jeremy was 16 years old when he placed 2nd over all at

the NORBA Oregon State Cross Country Championships. Carl Decker was the

only Pro that beat him in the Pro-Expert race at Mt Hood. Jeremy was also

splitting his time between being a Pro Trails Rider and a Mountain bike

racer. I want to stress he was not the second best rider in the state at

this time, but he did place second, and he was a good rider. He was only

riding a total of 12 hours a week. Some weeks he would ride 6 hours of

cross-country and some weeks he would ride 8 hours a week the rest of the

time he did trials riding. He was going very hard two times week, one of

them was the race day. The rest of the time he was resting!!!



Since Jeremy has decided to focus on just being a trials rider his results

as a trials rider has skyrocketed. He trains far less than many expert and

pro trials riders and is improving at a faster rate right now than ever in

his life. I know trials riding is not an endurance event, but plenty of

rest and recovery is the key to allowing your body to build stronger in

BOTH

aerobic and anaerobic events. Jeremy now trains less than 6 hours a week.

Because he allows himself so much time to rest he feels really great every

time he gets on the bike, as a result of this, his two intense days a week

are much more intense than ever before. The result is better quality

practice.



Another example of the importance of rest comes from the world of strength

building. In January, I started doing squats to build my leg strength. At

the time I started using 200 lbs. for my squats. I have been lifting once

every 10-14 days using a superslow protocol with the goal of reaching

failure in one to two minutes. I have lifted 9 times and I will be using

370 lbs in my next workout. I had never been able to lift over 200 lbs at

any time in my life!!!



A 61 one-year-old woman I am working with had been lifting for over 5 years

doing 80 lbs on the leg press. She was doing a 3 sets of 10 reps protocol

three times a week and the most weight she had ever done was 90 lbs, but

she

could not do it consistently. I started her lifting once every 7 days.

After 4 weeks she used 160 lbs and lifted it with a superslow 10 seconds up

and 10 seconds down rep for 1:49 seconds. The key to this is she is

getting

lots of rest. Using this same protocol she has also doubled her military

press. The very first thing I made this woman do was to take two weeks off

with no training of any kind. I knew she was overtraining for years!!!



Every person I am currently training is getting similar results and know

one

lifts more than once a week for 15- 30 minutes and some people are lifting

once every 14-21 days and getting steady results. It is the high intensity

training followed by lots of REST that leads to good results. I tell

people

I am working with that training is like an airplane. It has two wings, one

of the wings is high intensity training and the other wing is REST!!! If

you cut either wing short your plane will either be grounded or it will

crash and burn.



When it comes to our ability to recover from a work out there is a huge

misconception. We assume every one is the same. We are all equal,

everyone

is different and they need to adjust their training accordingly. Most

people do too many medium days and not enough truly hard days and not

enough

truly easy days. Medium days get you nowhere, but worn down. If you want

to

get good fast stop doing medium days. You get better by overstressing your

body and then allowing it to recover. Medium days do not stress your body

enough to trigger the response you are seeking to get better and they do

not

allow your body to rest and repair itself like it needs to.



Instead of trying to figure out how much stress your body can tolerate why

not try to figure out how little stress it takes to produce good results

and

spend the rest of your time allowing your body to rebuild and make itself

stronger.



So, take a honest look at yourself, if you decide you have the genetics,

examine your training, the reason you aren't?t putting the hurt on the ones

and twos might have more to do with your quality of training rather than

your lack of hours in the saddle.



I am sure this is a foreign way of thinking for most riders.   I am trying

to stimulate some alternative thinking in the cycling community.



Jim VanSchoonhoven



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





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Jim VanSchoonhoven

2003-04-07

I have been watching posts on this list for years and decided to ask some

questions and voice an opinion. I have noticed from talking to many racers

and from reading most of the USCF training manuals the common believe is

that Cat 2 racers and above must put in huge amounts of time and miles in

order to be good.



First off, I am wondering how much time or how many miles you Cat 2 racers

and above are putting in? I am expecting big numbers. This is just for my

information in some things I am working on.



I am asking this because based on my experience and a ton of studying 100s

of books and 1000s of articles from many different sports, I have a totally

different concept of what brings about the best in an athlete, and it does

not point to lots of hours on a bike or lots of miles each week. I believe a

person could be a Cat 2 or Cat 1 racer and do well with 10-12 hours a week

and maybe even LESS.



I know I could never get certified by the USCF based on what I am going to

say, but I am training all kinds of athletes and have great results based on

the following principles and I have applied them to cycling.



First, and foremost it is genetics that makes a great athlete, you either

got it or you don?t and if you don?t, you can train forever and do

everything right and you will never be a Cat 2, if you do not have the right

genetics.   I have heard too many people that believe if they only had

enough time they could be Lance Armstrong. Forget that, have fun with what

you got. Not every horse can win the Kentucky Derby!   On the other hand don

?t blame bad results on a lack of time. Strive to be the best you can be.



Second , even in endurance sports, it is speed and strength that is more

important to improving your fitness performance then having more endurance.

So once you can ride the length of time your event will last, you are better

off working on going faster rather than further. Don?t take this out of

context, you must first be able to ride your bike the amount of time the

race will last at least once or twice a week, if you can do that you have

enough endurance. Work on intervals and building strength. I know this may

not line up with what the USCF teaches, but there is a ton of research

backing this up.



This may surprise people but VO2 max has nothing to do with who wins

endurance races. An example of this is a study done on elite marathon

runners. First they tested every ones VO2 max. Then they ran the race,

they thought the people with the highest VO2 max would win the race. If VO2

max was an indicator of endurance that is what would have happened. They

did not win; in fact there was no correlation at all to how people placed

and their VO2 max. But here is the shocker!!! They ran a 40 meter dash and

guess what they got??? Almost a 100% correlation, the fastest guy in the

40-meter dash won the marathon and the slowest guy in the 40-meter dash lost

the marathon. Notice even Lance is training with a POWER METER!!! Many

studies in other endurance sports have shown an increase in strength alone

increases your endurance. Studies in Cross country skiing have similar

findings.



Third, the proper general cycling skills can give you more improvement than

long hours in the saddle; this would, including pedaling form and proper

cadence. Increase your pedaling efficiency and you will greatly enhance

your endurance and your speed.



Fourth, the proper race specific tactics and skills many times are more

important to enhancing performance then hours in the saddle. This would

include team tactics and personal tactics. Knowing when to breakaway and

when to draft and how to do each of these things can be more important than

adding more miles on the bike.



Fifth and I believe the most over looked aspect in training athletes and

cyclist are perhaps the worst at doing this is!!! REST!!! REST!!! REST!!!

Cyclist talk a lot about rest but few actually do it.



I know Mountain bike racing is not the same as road racing, but they are

both endurance sports. I am using this only as an example of the importance

of resting, my son, Jeremy was 16 years old when he placed 2nd over all at

the NORBA Oregon State Cross Country Championships. Carl Decker was the

only Pro that beat him in the Pro-Expert race at Mt Hood. Jeremy was also

splitting his time between being a Pro Trails Rider and a Mountain bike

racer. I want to stress he was not the second best rider in the state at

this time, but he did place second, and he was a good rider. He was only

riding a total of 12 hours a week. Some weeks he would ride 6 hours of

cross-country and some weeks he would ride 8 hours a week the rest of the

time he did trials riding. He was going very hard two times week, one of

them was the race day. The rest of the time he was resting!!!



Since Jeremy has decided to focus on just being a trials rider his results

as a trials rider has skyrocketed. He trains far less than many expert and

pro trials riders and is improving at a faster rate right now than ever in

his life. I know trials riding is not an endurance event, but plenty of

rest and recovery is the key to allowing your body to build stronger in BOTH

aerobic and anaerobic events. Jeremy now trains less than 6 hours a week.

Because he allows himself so much time to rest he feels really great every

time he gets on the bike, as a result of this, his two intense days a week

are much more intense than ever before. The result is better quality

practice.



Another example of the importance of rest comes from the world of strength

building. In January, I started doing squats to build my leg strength. At

the time I started using 200 lbs. for my squats. I have been lifting once

every 10-14 days using a superslow protocol with the goal of reaching

failure in one to two minutes. I have lifted 9 times and I will be using

370 lbs in my next workout. I had never been able to lift over 200 lbs at

any time in my life!!!



A 61 one-year-old woman I am working with had been lifting for over 5 years

doing 80 lbs on the leg press. She was doing a 3 sets of 10 reps protocol

three times a week and the most weight she had ever done was 90 lbs, but she

could not do it consistently. I started her lifting once every 7 days.

After 4 weeks she used 160 lbs and lifted it with a superslow 10 seconds up

and 10 seconds down rep for 1:49 seconds. The key to this is she is getting

lots of rest. Using this same protocol she has also doubled her military

press. The very first thing I made this woman do was to take two weeks off

with no training of any kind. I knew she was overtraining for years!!!



Every person I am currently training is getting similar results and know one

lifts more than once a week for 15- 30 minutes and some people are lifting

once every 14-21 days and getting steady results. It is the high intensity

training followed by lots of REST that leads to good results. I tell people

I am working with that training is like an airplane. It has two wings, one

of the wings is high intensity training and the other wing is REST!!! If

you cut either wing short your plane will either be grounded or it will

crash and burn.



When it comes to our ability to recover from a work out there is a huge

misconception. We assume every one is the same. We are all equal, everyone

is different and they need to adjust their training accordingly. Most

people do too many medium days and not enough truly hard days and not enough

truly easy days. Medium days get you nowhere, but worn down. If you want to

get good fast stop doing medium days. You get better by overstressing your

body and then allowing it to recover. Medium days do not stress your body

enough to trigger the response you are seeking to get better and they do not

allow your body to rest and repair itself like it needs to.



Instead of trying to figure out how much stress your body can tolerate why

not try to figure out how little stress it takes to produce good results and

spend the rest of your time allowing your body to rebuild and make itself

stronger.



So, take a honest look at yourself, if you decide you have the genetics,

examine your training, the reason you aren't?t putting the hurt on the ones

and twos might have more to do with your quality of training rather than

your lack of hours in the saddle.



I am sure this is a foreign way of thinking for most riders.   I am trying

to stimulate some alternative thinking in the cycling community.



Jim VanSchoonhoven