Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

Jeff Tedder

2013-01-31

Ummmm, sure if you bring a tow rope and drag me up every hill, then I
promise to pull you back down the back side of every climb...haha

---- Original Message -----
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To: "Jeff Tedder"
Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

> LOL. It'll make you stronger. Heck- if you do it, I'll do it with
> you. And we can complain to each other the entire way.
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jeff Tedder
> wrote:
>> ya no thanks....not interested in packing my fat ass over 72 miles of up
>> and
>> down : ) just sayin..........
>> I will leave that one alone....but sounds like a great race for some.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>> To: "Jeff Tedder"
>> Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:19 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>
>>
>>> you could always wait till the Gorge Roubaix to get your fill!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Jeff Tedder
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> that's to bad, was looking forward to a short circiut with gravel.....
>>>> and close to town so we could ride to the venue.....
>>>> onward and upward I guess : )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>>>> To: "Jeff Tedder"
>>>> Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
>>>>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:09 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There was some safety issues with the venue. We tried really hard to
>>>>> help make it work but we just couldn't. David was awesome and found
>>>>> another venue. (Big kudos to him for that)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jeff Tedder
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmmm, I thought these races were in Troutdale by the airport??? with
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> gravel sections....just asking, don't come back and start
>>>>>> bashing.....:
>>>>>> )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: "Erik Long"
>>>>>> Cc: "Obra Contact"
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:55 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> Cake course in Woodland, WA.
>>>>>>> (I don't believe there will be any gravel)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own
>>>>>>>> race"
>>>>>>>> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful,
>>>>>>>> nor
>>>>>>>> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last
>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
>>>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>>>> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer
>>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with
>>>>>>>> fenders
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full
>>>>>>>> fenders
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two
>>>>>>>> (2)
>>>>>>>> road
>>>>>>>> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and
>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure
>>>>>>>> they'll
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of
>>>>>>>> "Road
>>>>>>>> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention -
>>>>>>>> venue
>>>>>>>> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May.
>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more
>>>>>>>> cash.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>> -Erik
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>>>> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com;
>>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently,
>>>>>>>> Saturday
>>>>>>>> races
>>>>>>>> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money
>>>>>>>> grubbing
>>>>>>>> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love
>>>>>>>> both.
>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always
>>>>>>>> please
>>>>>>>> both. I
>>>>>>>> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
>>>>>>>> conflicting
>>>>>>>> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race
>>>>>>>> staging
>>>>>>>> venue
>>>>>>>> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside
>>>>>>>> chance
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> likely
>>>>>>>> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ride safe,
>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>> Jeff Mitchem
>>>>>>>> banana belt, sat
>>>>>>>> montinore, sun
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I
>>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>>> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking
>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your
>>>>>>>> frustration.
>>>>>>>> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just
>>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>>> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> more riders to support more events.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Drew
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
>>>>>>>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: elongride@hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance
>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel
>>>>>>>> distance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
>>>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>>> One
>>>>>>>> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a
>>>>>>>> bike,
>>>>>>>> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery,
>>>>>>>> honey-dos
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually
>>>>>>>> goes
>>>>>>>> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and
>>>>>>>> try
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling)
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>>> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a
>>>>>>>> morning
>>>>>>>> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three
>>>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>>>> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is
>>>>>>>> happening
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good
>>>>>>>> breakfast
>>>>>>>> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
>>>>>>>> port-a-johns
>>>>>>>> are long.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rick Johnson
>>>>>>>> Bend Oregon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * * *
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Political Parallelism, part 1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
>>>>>>>> propose
>>>>>>>> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>>>>>>>> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of
>>>>>>>> motor
>>>>>>>> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on
>>>>>>>> Saturdays
>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty
>>>>>>>> consistently
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you
>>>>>>>> know,
>>>>>>>> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on
>>>>>>>> Saturdays?
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
>>>>>>>> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
>>>>>>>> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road
>>>>>>>> races
>>>>>>>> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on
>>>>>>>> Sundays
>>>>>>>> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5
>>>>>>>> Sundays
>>>>>>>> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of
>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and
>>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost
>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the
>>>>>>>> mighty
>>>>>>>> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the
>>>>>>>> vast
>>>>>>>> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> riding
>>>>>>>> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many
>>>>>>>> Obra
>>>>>>>> riders
>>>>>>>> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt
>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Erik
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>>>>>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>>>>>> Executive Director
>>>>>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>>>>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>>>>>> http://www.obra.org
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>>>> Executive Director
>>>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>>>> http://www.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>> Executive Director
>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>> http://www.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org


T. Kenji Sugahara

2013-01-31

LOL. It'll make you stronger. Heck- if you do it, I'll do it with
you. And we can complain to each other the entire way.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Jeff Tedder
wrote:
> ya no thanks....not interested in packing my fat ass over 72 miles of up and
> down : ) just sayin..........
> I will leave that one alone....but sounds like a great race for some.....
>
>
>
>
>
> Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
> To: "Jeff Tedder"
> Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:19 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
>
>> you could always wait till the Gorge Roubaix to get your fill!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Jeff Tedder
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> that's to bad, was looking forward to a short circiut with gravel.....
>>> and close to town so we could ride to the venue.....
>>> onward and upward I guess : )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>>> To: "Jeff Tedder"
>>> Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
>>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:09 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>
>>>
>>>> There was some safety issues with the venue. We tried really hard to
>>>> help make it work but we just couldn't. David was awesome and found
>>>> another venue. (Big kudos to him for that)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jeff Tedder
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm, I thought these races were in Troutdale by the airport??? with
>>>>> some
>>>>> gravel sections....just asking, don't come back and start bashing.....:
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>>>>> To: "Erik Long"
>>>>> Cc: "Obra Contact"
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:55 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece of
>>>>>> Cake course in Woodland, WA.
>>>>>> (I don't believe there will be any gravel)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own
>>>>>>> race"
>>>>>>> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful,
>>>>>>> nor
>>>>>>> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last
>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
>>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>>> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer
>>>>>>> comes
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I
>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with
>>>>>>> fenders
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full
>>>>>>> fenders
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my
>>>>>>> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it
>>>>>>> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2)
>>>>>>> road
>>>>>>> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure
>>>>>>> they'll
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of
>>>>>>> "Road
>>>>>>> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention -
>>>>>>> venue
>>>>>>> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May.
>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday
>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more
>>>>>>> cash.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> -Erik
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>>> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
>>>>>>> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com;
>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday
>>>>>>> races
>>>>>>> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money
>>>>>>> grubbing
>>>>>>> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love
>>>>>>> both.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please
>>>>>>> both. I
>>>>>>> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
>>>>>>> conflicting
>>>>>>> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race
>>>>>>> staging
>>>>>>> venue
>>>>>>> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside
>>>>>>> chance
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will
>>>>>>> likely
>>>>>>> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ride safe,
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> Jeff Mitchem
>>>>>>> banana belt, sat
>>>>>>> montinore, sun
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I
>>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>>> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking
>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your
>>>>>>> frustration.
>>>>>>> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just
>>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>>> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> more riders to support more events.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Drew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
>>>>>>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: elongride@hotmail.com
>>>>>>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
>>>>>>> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel
>>>>>>> distance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
>>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>> One
>>>>>>> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a
>>>>>>> bike,
>>>>>>> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery,
>>>>>>> honey-dos
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
>>>>>>> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling)
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> hope
>>>>>>> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a
>>>>>>> morning
>>>>>>> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three
>>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>>> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is
>>>>>>> happening
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
>>>>>>> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
>>>>>>> port-a-johns
>>>>>>> are long.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rick Johnson
>>>>>>> Bend Oregon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * * *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Political Parallelism, part 1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
>>>>>>> propose
>>>>>>> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>>>>>>> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of
>>>>>>> motor
>>>>>>> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you
>>>>>>> know,
>>>>>>> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays?
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
>>>>>>> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
>>>>>>> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road
>>>>>>> races
>>>>>>> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
>>>>>>> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to
>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5
>>>>>>> Sundays
>>>>>>> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and
>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost
>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the
>>>>>>> mighty
>>>>>>> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the
>>>>>>> vast
>>>>>>> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
>>>>>>> riding
>>>>>>> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
>>>>>>> riders
>>>>>>> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because
>>>>>>> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Erik
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>>>>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>>>>> Executive Director
>>>>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>>>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>>>>> http://www.obra.org
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>>> Executive Director
>>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>>> http://www.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Sugahara
>> Executive Director
>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>> http://www.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org


Jeff Tedder

2013-01-31

ya no thanks....not interested in packing my fat ass over 72 miles of up and
down : ) just sayin..........
I will leave that one alone....but sounds like a great race for some.....

Original Message -----
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To: "Jeff Tedder"
Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

> you could always wait till the Gorge Roubaix to get your fill!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Jeff Tedder
> wrote:
>> that's to bad, was looking forward to a short circiut with gravel.....
>> and close to town so we could ride to the venue.....
>> onward and upward I guess : )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>> To: "Jeff Tedder"
>> Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:09 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>
>>
>>> There was some safety issues with the venue. We tried really hard to
>>> help make it work but we just couldn't. David was awesome and found
>>> another venue. (Big kudos to him for that)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jeff Tedder
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm, I thought these races were in Troutdale by the airport??? with
>>>> some
>>>> gravel sections....just asking, don't come back and start
>>>> bashing.....: )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>>>> To: "Erik Long"
>>>> Cc: "Obra Contact"
>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:55 AM
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.
>>>>>
>>>>> which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece of
>>>>> Cake course in Woodland, WA.
>>>>> (I don't believe there will be any gravel)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own
>>>>>> race"
>>>>>> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful,
>>>>>> nor
>>>>>> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last
>>>>>> thing
>>>>>> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer
>>>>>> comes
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with
>>>>>> fenders
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full
>>>>>> fenders
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my
>>>>>> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it
>>>>>> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the
>>>>>> needs
>>>>>> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2)
>>>>>> road
>>>>>> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure
>>>>>> they'll
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of
>>>>>> "Road
>>>>>> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention -
>>>>>> venue
>>>>>> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more
>>>>>> cash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> -Erik
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
>>>>>> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
>>>>>> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com;
>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday
>>>>>> races
>>>>>> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money
>>>>>> grubbing
>>>>>> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love
>>>>>> both.
>>>>>> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please
>>>>>> both. I
>>>>>> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
>>>>>> conflicting
>>>>>> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race
>>>>>> staging
>>>>>> venue
>>>>>> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside
>>>>>> chance
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will
>>>>>> likely
>>>>>> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ride safe,
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> Jeff Mitchem
>>>>>> banana belt, sat
>>>>>> montinore, sun
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I
>>>>>> cannot
>>>>>> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking
>>>>>> forward
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your
>>>>>> frustration.
>>>>>> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just
>>>>>> mentioned
>>>>>> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance
>>>>>> between
>>>>>> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> more riders to support more events.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Drew
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
>>>>>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>>>>>> To: elongride@hotmail.com
>>>>>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
>>>>>> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel
>>>>>> distance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
>>>>>> go.
>>>>>> One
>>>>>> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a
>>>>>> bike,
>>>>>> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery,
>>>>>> honey-dos
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
>>>>>> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling)
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> hope
>>>>>> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a
>>>>>> morning
>>>>>> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three
>>>>>> hours.
>>>>>> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is
>>>>>> happening
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
>>>>>> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
>>>>>> port-a-johns
>>>>>> are long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rick Johnson
>>>>>> Bend Oregon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * * *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Political Parallelism, part 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
>>>>>> propose
>>>>>> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>>>>>> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of
>>>>>> motor
>>>>>> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
>>>>>> now.
>>>>>> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you
>>>>>> know,
>>>>>> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays?
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
>>>>>> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
>>>>>> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road
>>>>>> races
>>>>>> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
>>>>>> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5
>>>>>> Sundays
>>>>>> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and
>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost
>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the
>>>>>> mighty
>>>>>> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the
>>>>>> vast
>>>>>> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
>>>>>> riding
>>>>>> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
>>>>>> riders
>>>>>> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because
>>>>>> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Erik
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>>>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>>>> Executive Director
>>>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>>>> http://www.obra.org
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>> Executive Director
>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>> http://www.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org


T. Kenji Sugahara

2013-01-31

you could always wait till the Gorge Roubaix to get your fill!

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Jeff Tedder
wrote:
> that's to bad, was looking forward to a short circiut with gravel.....
> and close to town so we could ride to the venue.....
> onward and upward I guess : )
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
> To: "Jeff Tedder"
> Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:09 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
>
>> There was some safety issues with the venue. We tried really hard to
>> help make it work but we just couldn't. David was awesome and found
>> another venue. (Big kudos to him for that)
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jeff Tedder
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmmm, I thought these races were in Troutdale by the airport??? with some
>>> gravel sections....just asking, don't come back and start bashing.....: )
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>>> To: "Erik Long"
>>> Cc: "Obra Contact"
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:55 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>
>>>
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.
>>>>
>>>> which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece of
>>>> Cake course in Woodland, WA.
>>>> (I don't believe there will be any gravel)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race"
>>>>> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful, nor
>>>>> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last
>>>>> thing
>>>>> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>>>>>
>>>>> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
>>>>> appropriate
>>>>> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make
>>>>> your
>>>>> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer comes
>>>>> to
>>>>> me
>>>>> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I don't
>>>>> get
>>>>> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with
>>>>> fenders
>>>>> and
>>>>> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full
>>>>> fenders
>>>>> to
>>>>> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my
>>>>> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it
>>>>> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the
>>>>> needs
>>>>> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2)
>>>>> road
>>>>> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both
>>>>> of
>>>>> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure
>>>>> they'll
>>>>> be
>>>>> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road
>>>>> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a
>>>>> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention - venue
>>>>> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll have
>>>>> my
>>>>> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May.
>>>>> That
>>>>> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday
>>>>> without
>>>>> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more cash.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> -Erik
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
>>>>> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
>>>>> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday
>>>>> races
>>>>> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing
>>>>> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love
>>>>> both.
>>>>> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please
>>>>> both. I
>>>>> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to
>>>>> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
>>>>> conflicting
>>>>> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging
>>>>> venue
>>>>> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside chance
>>>>> that
>>>>> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>>>>>
>>>>> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better
>>>>> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will
>>>>> likely
>>>>> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ride safe,
>>>>> __________
>>>>> Jeff Mitchem
>>>>> banana belt, sat
>>>>> montinore, sun
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I
>>>>> cannot
>>>>> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward
>>>>> to
>>>>> a
>>>>> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your
>>>>> frustration.
>>>>> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned
>>>>> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between
>>>>> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so
>>>>> there
>>>>> are
>>>>> more riders to support more events.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drew
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
>>>>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>>>>> To: elongride@hotmail.com
>>>>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
>>>>> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel
>>>>> distance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to go.
>>>>> One
>>>>> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a
>>>>> bike,
>>>>> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to the
>>>>> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery,
>>>>> honey-dos
>>>>> and
>>>>> the like.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
>>>>> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try to
>>>>> get
>>>>> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling) and
>>>>> hope
>>>>> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a
>>>>> morning
>>>>> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three
>>>>> hours.
>>>>> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening
>>>>> that
>>>>> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
>>>>> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
>>>>> port-a-johns
>>>>> are long.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick Johnson
>>>>> Bend Oregon
>>>>>
>>>>> * * *
>>>>>
>>>>> Political Parallelism, part 1
>>>>>
>>>>> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
>>>>> propose
>>>>> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>>>>> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor
>>>>> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
>>>>> now.
>>>>> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently on
>>>>> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you
>>>>> know,
>>>>> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays? I
>>>>> get
>>>>> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's only
>>>>> so
>>>>> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
>>>>> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
>>>>> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road
>>>>> races
>>>>> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on
>>>>> most
>>>>> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
>>>>> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to work
>>>>> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5
>>>>> Sundays
>>>>> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work
>>>>> is
>>>>> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll
>>>>> find
>>>>> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost nothing
>>>>> for
>>>>> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the
>>>>> mighty
>>>>> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the
>>>>> vast
>>>>> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>>>>>
>>>>> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
>>>>> riding
>>>>> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep
>>>>> so
>>>>> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
>>>>> riders
>>>>> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because
>>>>> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>>>>>
>>>>> -Erik
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>>>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>>> Executive Director
>>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>>> http://www.obra.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Sugahara
>> Executive Director
>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>> http://www.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org


Jeff Tedder

2013-01-31

that's to bad, was looking forward to a short circiut with gravel.....
and close to town so we could ride to the venue.....
onward and upward I guess : )

----- Original Message -----
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To: "Jeff Tedder"
Cc: "Erik Long" ; "Obra Contact"
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

> There was some safety issues with the venue. We tried really hard to
> help make it work but we just couldn't. David was awesome and found
> another venue. (Big kudos to him for that)
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jeff Tedder
> wrote:
>> Hmmm, I thought these races were in Troutdale by the airport??? with some
>> gravel sections....just asking, don't come back and start bashing.....: )
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>> To: "Erik Long"
>> Cc: "Obra Contact"
>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:55 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>
>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.
>>>
>>> which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece of
>>> Cake course in Woodland, WA.
>>> (I don't believe there will be any gravel)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race"
>>>> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful, nor
>>>> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last
>>>> thing
>>>> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>>>>
>>>> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
>>>> appropriate
>>>> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make
>>>> your
>>>> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer comes
>>>> to
>>>> me
>>>> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I don't
>>>> get
>>>> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with
>>>> fenders
>>>> and
>>>> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full
>>>> fenders
>>>> to
>>>> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my
>>>> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it
>>>> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the
>>>> needs
>>>> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>>>>
>>>> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2)
>>>> road
>>>> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both
>>>> of
>>>> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure
>>>> they'll
>>>> be
>>>> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road
>>>> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a
>>>> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention - venue
>>>> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll have
>>>> my
>>>> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May.
>>>> That
>>>> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday
>>>> without
>>>> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more cash.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> -Erik
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
>>>> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
>>>> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday
>>>> races
>>>> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing
>>>> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love
>>>> both.
>>>> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please
>>>> both. I
>>>> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>>>>
>>>> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to
>>>> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
>>>> conflicting
>>>> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging
>>>> venue
>>>> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside chance
>>>> that
>>>> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>>>>
>>>> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better
>>>> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will
>>>> likely
>>>> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>>>>
>>>> Ride safe,
>>>> __________
>>>> Jeff Mitchem
>>>> banana belt, sat
>>>> montinore, sun
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I
>>>> cannot
>>>> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward
>>>> to
>>>> a
>>>> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your
>>>> frustration.
>>>> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned
>>>> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between
>>>> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so
>>>> there
>>>> are
>>>> more riders to support more events.
>>>>
>>>> Drew
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
>>>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>>>> To: elongride@hotmail.com
>>>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
>>>> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel
>>>> distance.
>>>>
>>>> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to go.
>>>> One
>>>> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a
>>>> bike,
>>>> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to the
>>>> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery,
>>>> honey-dos
>>>> and
>>>> the like.
>>>>
>>>> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
>>>> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try to
>>>> get
>>>> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling) and
>>>> hope
>>>> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a
>>>> morning
>>>> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three
>>>> hours.
>>>> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening
>>>> that
>>>> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
>>>> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
>>>> port-a-johns
>>>> are long.
>>>>
>>>> Rick Johnson
>>>> Bend Oregon
>>>>
>>>> * * *
>>>>
>>>> Political Parallelism, part 1
>>>>
>>>> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
>>>> propose
>>>> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>>>> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor
>>>> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
>>>> now.
>>>> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>>>>
>>>> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently on
>>>> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you
>>>> know,
>>>> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>>>>
>>>> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays?
>>>> I
>>>> get
>>>> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's only
>>>> so
>>>> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
>>>> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
>>>> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road
>>>> races
>>>> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on
>>>> most
>>>> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
>>>> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to work
>>>> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5
>>>> Sundays
>>>> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work
>>>> is
>>>> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll
>>>> find
>>>> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost nothing
>>>> for
>>>> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the
>>>> mighty
>>>> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the
>>>> vast
>>>> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>>>>
>>>> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
>>>> riding
>>>> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep
>>>> so
>>>> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>>>>
>>>> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
>>>> riders
>>>> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because
>>>> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>>>>
>>>> -Erik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kenji Sugahara
>>> Executive Director
>>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>>> http://www.obra.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org


Jeff Tedder

2013-01-31

Hmmm, I thought these races were in Troutdale by the airport??? with some
gravel sections....just asking, don't come back and start bashing.....: )

----- Original Message -----
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To: "Erik Long"
Cc: "Obra Contact"
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

> ?
>
> Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.
>
> which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece of
> Cake course in Woodland, WA.
> (I don't believe there will be any gravel)
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race"
>> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful, nor
>> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last thing
>> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>>
>> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
>> appropriate
>> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make your
>> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer comes to
>> me
>> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I don't
>> get
>> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with fenders
>> and
>> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full fenders
>> to
>> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my
>> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it
>> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the
>> needs
>> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>>
>> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2)
>> road
>> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both of
>> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure they'll
>> be
>> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road
>> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>>
>> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a
>> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention - venue
>> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll have my
>> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May. That
>> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday
>> without
>> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more cash.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> -Erik
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>>
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
>> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
>> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday
>> races
>> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing
>> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love both.
>> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please
>> both. I
>> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>>
>> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to
>> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
>> conflicting
>> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging
>> venue
>> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside chance
>> that
>> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>>
>> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better
>> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will
>> likely
>> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>>
>> Ride safe,
>> __________
>> Jeff Mitchem
>> banana belt, sat
>> montinore, sun
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
>> wrote:
>>
>> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I cannot
>> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward to
>> a
>> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your
>> frustration.
>> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned
>> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between
>> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there
>> are
>> more riders to support more events.
>>
>> Drew
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>> To: elongride@hotmail.com
>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>
>>
>> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
>> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel distance.
>>
>> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to go.
>> One
>> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a bike,
>> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to the
>> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery, honey-dos
>> and
>> the like.
>>
>> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
>> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try to
>> get
>> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling) and
>> hope
>> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a morning
>> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three hours.
>> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening
>> that
>> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
>> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the port-a-johns
>> are long.
>>
>> Rick Johnson
>> Bend Oregon
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> Political Parallelism, part 1
>>
>> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
>> propose
>> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor
>> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>>
>> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>
>> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
>> now.
>> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>>
>> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently on
>> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you know,
>> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>>
>> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays? I
>> get
>> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's only
>> so
>> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
>> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
>> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road races
>> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on
>> most
>> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
>> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to work
>> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5
>> Sundays
>> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is
>> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>>
>> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll
>> find
>> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost nothing
>> for
>> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the mighty
>> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the vast
>> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>>
>> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
>> riding
>> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep so
>> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>>
>> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
>> riders
>> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because
>> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>>
>> -Erik
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe:
>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> Phone: 503-278-5550
> http://www.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


T. Kenji Sugahara

2013-01-31

There was some safety issues with the venue. We tried really hard to
help make it work but we just couldn't. David was awesome and found
another venue. (Big kudos to him for that)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Jeff Tedder
wrote:
> Hmmm, I thought these races were in Troutdale by the airport??? with some
> gravel sections....just asking, don't come back and start bashing.....: )
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
> To: "Erik Long"
> Cc: "Obra Contact"
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2013 10:55 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
>
>> ?
>>
>> Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.
>>
>> which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece of
>> Cake course in Woodland, WA.
>> (I don't believe there will be any gravel)
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>>
>>> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race"
>>> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful, nor
>>> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last thing
>>> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>>>
>>> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
>>> appropriate
>>> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make your
>>> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer comes to
>>> me
>>> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I don't
>>> get
>>> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with fenders
>>> and
>>> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full fenders
>>> to
>>> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my
>>> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it
>>> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the
>>> needs
>>> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>>>
>>> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2)
>>> road
>>> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both of
>>> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure they'll
>>> be
>>> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road
>>> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>>>
>>> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a
>>> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention - venue
>>> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll have my
>>> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May. That
>>> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday
>>> without
>>> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more cash.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> -Erik
>>> ________________________________
>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
>>> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
>>> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday
>>> races
>>> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing
>>> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love both.
>>> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please
>>> both. I
>>> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>>>
>>> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to
>>> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
>>> conflicting
>>> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging
>>> venue
>>> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside chance
>>> that
>>> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>>>
>>> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better
>>> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will
>>> likely
>>> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>>>
>>> Ride safe,
>>> __________
>>> Jeff Mitchem
>>> banana belt, sat
>>> montinore, sun
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I cannot
>>> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward to
>>> a
>>> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your
>>> frustration.
>>> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned
>>> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between
>>> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there
>>> are
>>> more riders to support more events.
>>>
>>> Drew
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
>>> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
>>> To: elongride@hotmail.com
>>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
>>> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel distance.
>>>
>>> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to go.
>>> One
>>> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a bike,
>>> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to the
>>> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery, honey-dos
>>> and
>>> the like.
>>>
>>> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
>>> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try to
>>> get
>>> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling) and
>>> hope
>>> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a morning
>>> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three hours.
>>> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening
>>> that
>>> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
>>> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the port-a-johns
>>> are long.
>>>
>>> Rick Johnson
>>> Bend Oregon
>>>
>>> * * *
>>>
>>> Political Parallelism, part 1
>>>
>>> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
>>> propose
>>> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>>> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor
>>> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>>>
>>> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
>>> now.
>>> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>>>
>>> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently on
>>> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you know,
>>> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>>>
>>> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays? I
>>> get
>>> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's only
>>> so
>>> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
>>> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
>>> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road races
>>> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on
>>> most
>>> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
>>> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to work
>>> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5
>>> Sundays
>>> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is
>>> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll
>>> find
>>> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost nothing
>>> for
>>> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the mighty
>>> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the vast
>>> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>>>
>>> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
>>> riding
>>> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep so
>>> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>>>
>>> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
>>> riders
>>> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because
>>> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>>>
>>> -Erik
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kenji Sugahara
>> Executive Director
>> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
>> Phone: 503-278-5550
>> http://www.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org


Evan Plews

2013-01-31

Oh, well can't please everyone but I would be glad to swap a few Saturday MTB races for Sunday ROAD races;)

Evan Plews
www.evanplews.com
503-949-4879

From: elongride@hotmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:38:44 -0800
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race" (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful, nor productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last thing Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.

When a customer asks about details related to your product, the appropriate response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make your own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer comes to me and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I don't get to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with fenders and meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full fenders to fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the needs of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.

Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2) road events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both of them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure they'll be a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.

Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention - venue changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll have my money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May. That move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday without putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more cash.

Thank you,
-Erik
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org

So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday races draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love both. Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please both. I guess I'll just have to be OK with that.

As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in conflicting road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging venue changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside chance that the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).

As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will likely be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).

Ride safe,
__________
Jeff Mitchem
banana belt, satmontinore, sun

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman wrote:

I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I cannot race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward to a full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your frustration. I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there are more riders to support more events.

Drew

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com

To: elongride@hotmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?





I don't think you're crazy. I think
there should be a balance between Saturday vs Sunday races. My
belief is it comes down to travel distance.

Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
go. One can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still
prepare a bike, eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip
(ideally riding) to the Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then
great for recovery, honey-dos and the like.

But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually
goes something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home
and try to get the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or
coordinate car pooling) and hope to get to bed at a decent hour.
Then get up early, rush through a morning routine, then get in a
vehicle and sit still for one, two or three hours. Jump out of the
car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening that day
and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
port-a-johns are long.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Political Parallelism, part 1

Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I propose we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.

On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:





It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on
Saturdays now. I'm scratching my head as to why.

Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty
consistently on Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day
off of work and, you know, pay an entry fee and race their
bikes.

Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on
Saturdays? I get that we have weekly races and those are good
training, but there's only so much that a rider can get out of a
weekly series. I understand the importance of Sundays to many
people as a self-imposed day of rest (religion, family, etc.),
but many of us who want to race real road races have jobs that
don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on most
Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on
Sundays (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who
consistently has to work Sundays). As a full-time bike shop
employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays in the last 4 years.
Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is often closed
on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.

I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and
you'll find that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays,
there's almost nothing for you after March. This reality may be
one of the reasons that the mighty Cross Crusade sees the level
of participation that it does with the vast majority of its
events occurring on Sundays.

Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them
from riding any stage races, so why make the one-day events so
elusive? Why keep so many riders from handing over their money
on race day?

If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many
Obra riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the
Banana Belt because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!

-Erik



_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


T. Kenji Sugahara

2013-01-31

?

Dirty Circle races are on Sunday.

which by the way as an update- will be run on part of the old Piece of
Cake course in Woodland, WA.
(I don't believe there will be any gravel)

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Erik Long wrote:
> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race"
> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful, nor
> productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last thing
> Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>
> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the appropriate
> response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make your
> own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer comes to me
> and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I don't get
> to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with fenders and
> meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full fenders to
> fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my
> employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it
> yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the needs
> of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>
> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2) road
> events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both of
> them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure they'll be
> a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road
> Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>
> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a
> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention - venue
> changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll have my
> money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May. That
> move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday without
> putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more cash.
>
> Thank you,
> -Erik
> ________________________________
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>
>
> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday races
> draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing
> heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love both.
> Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please both. I
> guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>
> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to
> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in conflicting
> road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging venue
> changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside chance that
> the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).
>
> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better
> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will likely
> be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>
> Ride safe,
> __________
> Jeff Mitchem
> banana belt, sat
> montinore, sun
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
> wrote:
>
> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I cannot
> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward to a
> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your frustration.
> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned
> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between
> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there are
> more riders to support more events.
>
> Drew
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
> To: elongride@hotmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
>
> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel distance.
>
> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to go. One
> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a bike,
> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to the
> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery, honey-dos and
> the like.
>
> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try to get
> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling) and hope
> to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a morning
> routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three hours.
> Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening that
> day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the port-a-johns
> are long.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> Political Parallelism, part 1
>
> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I propose
> we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor
> vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>
> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>
> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays now.
> I'm scratching my head as to why.
>
> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently on
> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you know,
> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>
> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays? I get
> that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's only so
> much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road races
> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on most
> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to work
> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays
> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is
> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>
> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll find
> that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost nothing for
> you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that the mighty
> Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the vast
> majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>
> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from riding
> any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep so
> many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>
> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra riders
> who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because
> they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>
> -Erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
Phone: 503-278-5550
http://www.obra.org


Rick Johnson

2013-01-31

Well said!

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

On 1/31/2013 10:38 AM, Erik Long wrote:
> To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race"
> (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful,
> nor productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last
> thing Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.
>
> When a customer asks about details related to your product, the
> appropriate response is to answer with the relevant information on
> hand. "Make your own" is a way of giving your customer the finger.
> If a customer comes to me and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has
> no fender eyelets, I don't get to tell him to "build his own". Either
> I put him on a bike with fenders and meet the needs of my customer, or
> I explain why there are no full fenders to fit a 29-inch
> full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my employer tells
> me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it yourself", the
> result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the needs of my
> employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.
>
> Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2)
> road events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th
> and both of them are Gran
> Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure they'll be a lot of
> fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road Season"
> without any "Road Races". That's really strange.
>
> Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a
> simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention -
> venue changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable.
> You'll have my money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana
> Belt to May. That move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of
> work on a Saturday without putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be
> handing you even more cash.
>
> Thank you,
> -Erik
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
> From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
> To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
> CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>
> So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday
> races draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money
> grubbing heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I
> love both. Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot
> always please both. I guess I'll just have to be OK with that.
>
> As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to
> Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in
> conflicting road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and
> race staging venue changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there
> is an outside chance that the first BB may be held on Sunday (more
> soon on that).
>
> As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better
> budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will
> likely be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).
>
> Ride safe,
> __________
> *Jeff Mitchem*
> banana belt, sat
> montinore, sun
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman
> > wrote:
>
> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I
> cannot race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm
> looking forward to a full, consistent road schedule. That being
> said, I feel your frustration. I can't do many of the cross races
> for the same reason I just mentioned (have only been to one
> Crusade race), but there is more balance between Saturday and
> Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there are
> more riders to support more events.
>
> Drew
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
> To: elongride@hotmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
>
> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance
> between Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to
> travel distance.
>
> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
> go. One can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still
> prepare a bike, eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip
> (ideally riding) to the Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then
> great for recovery, honey-dos and the like.
>
> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually
> goes something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home
> and try to get the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or
> coordinate car pooling) and hope to get to bed at a decent hour.
> Then get up early, rush through a morning routine, then get in a
> vehicle and sit still for one, two or three hours. Jump out of the
> car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening that day
> and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
> usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
> port-a-johns are long.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> Political Parallelism, part 1
>
> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I propose we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>
> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>
> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on
> Saturdays now. I'm scratching my head as to why.
>
> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty
> consistently on Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day
> off of work and, you know, pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>
> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on
> Saturdays? I get that we have weekly races and those are good
> training, but there's only so much that a rider can get out of
> a weekly series. I understand the importance of Sundays to
> many people as a self-imposed day of rest (religion, family,
> etc.), but many of us who want to race real road races have
> jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work
> on most Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who
> work on Sundays (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who
> consistently has to work Sundays). As a full-time bike shop
> employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays in the last 4 years.
> Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is often
> closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>
> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule
> and you'll find that if you're a road racer who works
> Saturdays, there's almost nothing for you after March. This
> reality may be one of the reasons that the mighty Cross
> Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with the
> vast majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>
> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit
> them from riding any stage races, so why make the one-day
> events so elusive? Why keep so many riders from handing over
> their money on race day?
>
> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many
> Obra riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the
> Banana Belt because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>
> -Erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra Unsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Erik Long

2013-01-31

To each and every individual who suggested that I "put on my own race" (particularly if you're a race organizer), that is neither helpful, nor productive. Oregon has plenty of good race promoters and the last thing Obra needs is an amateur like myself mucking about, and you know it.

When a customer asks about details related to your product, the appropriate response is to answer with the relevant information on hand. "Make your own" is a way of giving your customer the finger. If a customer comes to me and asks why the bike I'm selling to him has no fender eyelets, I don't get to tell him to "build his own". Either I put him on a bike with fenders and meet the needs of my customer, or I explain why there are no full fenders to fit a 29-inch full-suspension fat-bike recumbent. Similarly, when my employer tells me I'm needed to work on Saturday and I answer "do it yourself", the result will not bode well for me. Better to meet the needs of my employer who is, in many ways, a customer of my very own.

Sundays. The reality is that at the moment there are exactly two (2) road events occurring on Sundays between March 24th and June 16th and both of them are Gran Fondos (A.K.A. expensive charity rides). I'm sure they'll be a lot of fun, but that's 11 Sundays in a row during the height of "Road Season" without any "Road Races". That's really strange.

Finally, Thank you, Jeff Mitchem. You have given a simple answer to a simple question asked by a customer. The conflicts you mention - venue changes, pre-existing events - are fully understandable. You'll have my money at Montinore. Also, thank you for moving Banana Belt to May. That move was long overdue, and if I can sneak out of work on a Saturday without putting myself on thin ice at work, I'll be handing you even more cash.

Thank you,
-Erik
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 12:01:18 -0800
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
From: jeff.mitchem@gmail.com
To: drew_coleman@hotmail.com
CC: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org

So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday races draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love both. Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please both. I guess I'll just have to be OK with that.

As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in conflicting road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging venue changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside chance that the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).

As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will likely be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).

Ride safe,
__________
Jeff Mitchem
banana belt, satmontinore, sun

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman wrote:

I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I cannot race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward to a full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your frustration. I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there are more riders to support more events.

Drew

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com

To: elongride@hotmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?





I don't think you're crazy. I think
there should be a balance between Saturday vs Sunday races. My
belief is it comes down to travel distance.

Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
go. One can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still
prepare a bike, eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip
(ideally riding) to the Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then
great for recovery, honey-dos and the like.

But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually
goes something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home
and try to get the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or
coordinate car pooling) and hope to get to bed at a decent hour.
Then get up early, rush through a morning routine, then get in a
vehicle and sit still for one, two or three hours. Jump out of the
car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening that day
and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
port-a-johns are long.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Political Parallelism, part 1

Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I propose we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.

On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:





It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on
Saturdays now. I'm scratching my head as to why.

Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty
consistently on Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day
off of work and, you know, pay an entry fee and race their
bikes.

Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on
Saturdays? I get that we have weekly races and those are good
training, but there's only so much that a rider can get out of a
weekly series. I understand the importance of Sundays to many
people as a self-imposed day of rest (religion, family, etc.),
but many of us who want to race real road races have jobs that
don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on most
Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on
Sundays (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who
consistently has to work Sundays). As a full-time bike shop
employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays in the last 4 years.
Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is often closed
on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.

I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and
you'll find that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays,
there's almost nothing for you after March. This reality may be
one of the reasons that the mighty Cross Crusade sees the level
of participation that it does with the vast majority of its
events occurring on Sundays.

Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them
from riding any stage races, so why make the one-day events so
elusive? Why keep so many riders from handing over their money
on race day?

If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many
Obra riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the
Banana Belt because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!

-Erik



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rondot@spiritone.com

2013-01-30

And that seems like a good fit with “Candi Murray”.
Nice.
ronnie

From: Rick Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:01 PM
To: Matt Martel
Cc: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

"Gandhi Murray"

That's a good one. It could stick...
:-D

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

On 1/30/2013 11:45 AM, Matt Martel wrote:

Thanks Gandhi! Sorry... couldn't help myself. :)

Matt

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

Race organizers schedule races for the days that work for them. There is no grand plan or puppet master that decides when races will be scheduled. That race days have migrated to Saturdays is a result of market forces, perception, personal needs of race organizers, venue availability, etc. Interestingly when races were mostly on Sundays we would get complaints about that. This thread may tip some organizers to scheduling on Sunday. Ultimately this is the prototypical "be the change you want to see in the world".
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Coleman
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:43:50
To: ;
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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joec@aracnet.com

2013-01-30

I'm going to give you a little advice. There's a force in the universe
that makes things happen.
And all you have to do is get in touch with it, stop thinking, let
things happen, and be the race.

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:18:48 +0000, "Darell"
wrote:
> Aaaaahhh. BE the race that you want to see....
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Mike Murray"
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:30:39
> Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: remailer, OBRA
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
> Race organizers schedule races for the days that work for them. There
> is no grand plan or puppet master that decides when races will be
> scheduled. That race days have migrated to Saturdays is a result of
> market forces, perception, personal needs of race organizers, venue
> availability, etc. Interestingly when races were mostly on Sundays we
> would get complaints about that. This thread may tip some organizers
> to scheduling on Sunday. Ultimately this is the prototypical "be the
> change you want to see in the world".
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drew Coleman
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:43:50
> To: ;
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Darell

2013-01-30

Aaaaahhh. BE the race that you want to see....

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mike Murray"
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.orgDate: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 19:30:39
Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: remailer, OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

Race organizers schedule races for the days that work for them. There is no grand plan or puppet master that decides when races will be scheduled. That race days have migrated to Saturdays is a result of market forces, perception, personal needs of race organizers, venue availability, etc. Interestingly when races were mostly on Sundays we would get complaints about that. This thread may tip some organizers to scheduling on Sunday. Ultimately this is the prototypical "be the change you want to see in the world".
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Coleman
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:43:50
To: ;
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Rick Johnson

2013-01-30

"Gandhi Murray"

That's a good one. It could stick...
:-D

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

On 1/30/2013 11:45 AM, Matt Martel wrote:
> Thanks Gandhi! Sorry... couldn't help myself. :)
>
> Matt
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Mike Murray > wrote:
>
> Race organizers schedule races for the days that work for them.
> There is no grand plan or puppet master that decides when races
> will be scheduled. That race days have migrated to Saturdays is a
> result of market forces, perception, personal needs of race
> organizers, venue availability, etc. Interestingly when races were
> mostly on Sundays we would get complaints about that. This thread
> may tip some organizers to scheduling on Sunday. Ultimately this
> is the prototypical "be the change you want to see in the world".
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drew Coleman >
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:43:50
> To: >;
> >
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> >
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jeff Mitchem

2013-01-30

So, it seems that it comes down to God or Money. Apparently, Saturday races
draw a more pious crowd, while Sunday races bring in the money grubbing
heathen seen gallivanting about those Crusade events. Well, I love both.
Unfortunately, as a race promoter, it appears I cannot always please both.
I guess I'll just have to be OK with that.

As for BB13 (May 4, 11, 18), two factors have contributed to moving to
Saturday - 1. the schedule change from March to May resulted in conflicting
road use permits with a pre-existing event. 2. course and race staging
venue changes resulted Sunday conflicts. However, there is an outside
chance that the first BB may be held on Sunday (more soon on that).

As for Montinore (July 14), Sunday it is! So, all you Crusaders better
budget extra $ for some vino! And, in true Crusade style, there will likely
be vino primes and overall prizes (more soon on that too).

Ride safe,
__________
*Jeff Mitchem*
banana belt, sat
montinore, sun

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 AM, Drew Coleman wrote:

> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I cannot
> race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward to a
> full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your frustration.
> I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned
> (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between
> Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there
> are more riders to support more events.
>
> Drew
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
> To: elongride@hotmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
>
> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel distance.
>
> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to go. One
> can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a bike,
> eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to the
> Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery, honey-dos
> and the like.
>
> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try to get
> the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling) and
> hope to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through a
> morning routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or three
> hours. Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is
> happening that day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good
> breakfast usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
> port-a-johns are long.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> Political Parallelism, part 1
>
> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I propose we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>
>
> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>
> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
> now. I'm scratching my head as to why.
>
> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently on
> Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you know,
> pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>
> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays? I
> get that we have weekly races and those are good training, but there's only
> so much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I understand the
> importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed day of rest
> (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race real road races
> have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on most
> Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays
> (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to work
> Sundays). As a full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays
> in the last 4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is
> often closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.
>
> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll
> find that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost
> nothing for you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons that
> the mighty Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it does with
> the vast majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>
> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
> riding any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why
> keep so many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>
> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
> riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt
> because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>
> -Erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Joe King

2013-01-30

Count me as another vote for more Sunday racing!

But yes, I'm sure promoters get gripes regardless of what day/time/location.

The best Idea I have heard is to schedule OBRA races on the same days as the real classics. Maybe a sprinters classic the same day as Milan-Sanremo, an Oregon Roubaix on the same day as Paris-Roubaix. If Gent-Wevelgem is on a Wednesday, then who cares we do a weird Weds race.

This would both spread the racing throughout the year, and mix up the days.

Joe


Matt Martel

2013-01-30

Thanks Gandhi! Sorry... couldn't help myself. :)

Matt

On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Mike Murray wrote:

> Race organizers schedule races for the days that work for them. There is
> no grand plan or puppet master that decides when races will be scheduled.
> That race days have migrated to Saturdays is a result of market forces,
> perception, personal needs of race organizers, venue availability, etc.
> Interestingly when races were mostly on Sundays we would get complaints
> about that. This thread may tip some organizers to scheduling on Sunday.
> Ultimately this is the prototypical "be the change you want to see in the
> world".
> Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drew Coleman
> Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:43:50
> To: ;
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Mike Murray

2013-01-30

Race organizers schedule races for the days that work for them. There is no grand plan or puppet master that decides when races will be scheduled. That race days have migrated to Saturdays is a result of market forces, perception, personal needs of race organizers, venue availability, etc. Interestingly when races were mostly on Sundays we would get complaints about that. This thread may tip some organizers to scheduling on Sunday. Ultimately this is the prototypical "be the change you want to see in the world".
Mike Murray - Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Coleman
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:43:50
To: ;
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


joec@aracnet.com

2013-01-30

The facts of life for a promoter is that someone will always bitch.

Promoters will always schedule a race to garner the greater attendance
and
that is based on a number of factors:
* venue availability
* calendar conflicts
* location

In the 20+ years I have been active in OBRA, events/venues/dates
change.
Some people will welcome the change of Sunday to Saturday. Others will
miss out
because of Sunday commitments. Promoters always run the risk of
alienating a
portion of the audience when selecting a date.

This is not a democracy, so the customer cant vote on what day to hold
and
event. All you can do is hope the promoter can take into account
meeting the
need of the greatest number of members.

Joe

On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:43:50 +0000, Drew Coleman
wrote:
> I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I
> cannot race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking
> forward to a full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel
> your frustration. I can't do many of the cross races for the same
> reason I just mentioned (have only been to one Crusade race), but
> there is more balance between Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe
> more people race cross so there are more riders to support more
> events.
>
> Drew
>
> -------------------------
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
> From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
> To: elongride@hotmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?
>
> I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
> Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel
> distance.
>
> Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
> go. One can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still
> prepare a bike, eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip
> (ideally riding) to the Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then
> great for recovery, honey-dos and the like.
>
> But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
> something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try
> to get the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car
> pooling) and hope to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early,
> rush through a morning routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still
> for one, two or three hours. Jump out of the car, deal with whatever
> registration SNAFU is happening that day and hope to get some sort of
> a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast usually doesn't happen and God
> help you if the lines for the port-a-johns are long.
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend Oregon
>
> * * *
>
> Political Parallelism, part 1
>
> Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I
> propose we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
>
> It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of
> motor vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.
>
> On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
>
> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
> now. I'm scratching my head as to why.
>
> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently
> on Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you
> know, pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>
> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays?
> I get that we have weekly races and those are good training, but
> there's only so much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I
> understand the importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed
> day of rest (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race
> real road races have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are
> expected to work on most Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few
> people who work on Sundays (actually, I can't think of anyone I know
> who consistently has to work Sundays). As a full-time bike shop
> employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays in the last 4 years. Like many
> service/retail jobs, my place of work is often closed on Sundays,
> eliminating the conflict altogether.
>
> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and
> you'll find that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's
> almost nothing for you after March. This reality may be one of the
> reasons that the mighty Cross Crusade sees the level of participation
> that it does with the vast majority of its events occurring on
> Sundays.
>
> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
> riding any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why
> keep so many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>
> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
> riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt
> because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>
> -Erik
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org [1]
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra [2]
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org [3]
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:obra@list.obra.org
> [2] http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> [3] mailto:obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Drew Coleman

2013-01-30

I, for one, am super jazzed about the trend towards Saturdays. I cannot race on Sundays at all due to church conflicts, so I'm looking forward to a full, consistent road schedule. That being said, I feel your frustration. I can't do many of the cross races for the same reason I just mentioned (have only been to one Crusade race), but there is more balance between Saturday and Sunday. However, I believe more people race cross so there are more riders to support more events.
Drew

Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 10:28:41 -0800
From: rickcjohnson1@gmail.com
To: elongride@hotmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why are so few Road Races on Sundays?





I don't think you're crazy. I think
there should be a balance between Saturday vs Sunday races. My
belief is it comes down to travel distance.

Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to
go. One can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still
prepare a bike, eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip
(ideally riding) to the Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then
great for recovery, honey-dos and the like.

But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually
goes something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home
and try to get the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or
coordinate car pooling) and hope to get to bed at a decent hour.
Then get up early, rush through a morning routine, then get in a
vehicle and sit still for one, two or three hours. Jump out of the
car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU is happening that day
and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a good breakfast
usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for the
port-a-johns are long.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Political Parallelism, part 1

Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I propose we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.

On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:





It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on
Saturdays now. I'm scratching my head as to why.

Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty
consistently on Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day
off of work and, you know, pay an entry fee and race their
bikes.

Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on
Saturdays? I get that we have weekly races and those are good
training, but there's only so much that a rider can get out of a
weekly series. I understand the importance of Sundays to many
people as a self-imposed day of rest (religion, family, etc.),
but many of us who want to race real road races have jobs that
don't offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on most
Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few people who work on
Sundays (actually, I can't think of anyone I know who
consistently has to work Sundays). As a full-time bike shop
employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays in the last 4 years.
Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is often closed
on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.

I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and
you'll find that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays,
there's almost nothing for you after March. This reality may be
one of the reasons that the mighty Cross Crusade sees the level
of participation that it does with the vast majority of its
events occurring on Sundays.

Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them
from riding any stage races, so why make the one-day events so
elusive? Why keep so many riders from handing over their money
on race day?

If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many
Obra riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the
Banana Belt because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!

-Erik



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Rick Johnson

2013-01-30

I don't think you're crazy. I think there should be a balance between
Saturday vs Sunday races. My belief is it comes down to travel distance.

Saturday races primarily work well for those who don't have far to go.
One can take care of Friday's business (work, etc.) and still prepare a
bike, eat well and get some sleep. With a short trip (ideally riding) to
the Saturday event all is well. Sunday is then great for recovery,
honey-dos and the like.

But if one has far to go to the event Saturday sucks. It usually goes
something like this: Finish up a hectic work week, rush home and try to
get the bike(s) ready, eat, prepare the car (or coordinate car pooling)
and hope to get to bed at a decent hour. Then get up early, rush through
a morning routine, then get in a vehicle and sit still for one, two or
three hours. Jump out of the car, deal with whatever registration SNAFU
is happening that day and hope to get some sort of a warmup in. Eating a
good breakfast usually doesn't happen and God help you if the lines for
the port-a-johns are long.

Rick Johnson
Bend Oregon

* * *

Political Parallelism, part 1

Most criminals are aided by the use of a motor vehicle. Therefore I propose we limit the size of all fuel tanks to a maximum of 5 gallons.
It's a "common sense regulation" that will impede unlawful use of motor vehicles while not infringing on the right of people to travel.

On 1/30/2013 10:06 AM, Erik Long wrote:
> It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays
> now. I'm scratching my head as to why.
>
> Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently
> on Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you
> know, pay an entry fee and race their bikes.
>
> Why are the vast majority of Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays?
> I get that we have weekly races and those are good training, but
> there's only so much that a rider can get out of a weekly series. I
> understand the importance of Sundays to many people as a self-imposed
> day of rest (religion, family, etc.), but many of us who want to race
> real road races have jobs that don't offer Banker's Hours and are
> expected to work on most Saturdays. By comparison, I know very few
> people who work on Sundays (actually, I can't think of anyone I know
> who consistently has to work Sundays). As a full-time bike shop
> employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays in the last 4 years. Like many
> service/retail jobs, my place of work is often closed on Sundays,
> eliminating the conflict altogether.
>
> I wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll
> find that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost
> nothing for you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons
> that the mighty Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it
> does with the vast majority of its events occurring on Sundays.
>
> Many Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from
> riding any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive?
> Why keep so many riders from handing over their money on race day?
>
> If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra
> riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt
> because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!
>
> -Erik
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Erik Long

2013-01-30

It seems like all the prominent one-day Oregon races are on Saturdays now. I'm scratching my head as to why.

Once Upon a time, Road Races in Oregon were held pretty consistently on
Sundays, when virtually anyone could get a day off of work and, you know, pay an
entry fee and race their bikes.

Why are the vast majority of
Oregon's one-day races now on Saturdays? I get that we have weekly
races and those are good training, but there's only so much that a rider
can get out of a weekly series. I understand the importance of Sundays
to many people as a self-imposed day of rest (religion, family, etc.),
but many of us who want to race real road races have jobs that don't
offer Banker's Hours and are expected to work on most Saturdays. By
comparison, I know very few people who work on Sundays (actually, I
can't think of anyone I know who consistently has to work Sundays). As a
full-time bike shop employee, I've worked exactly 5 Sundays in the last
4 years. Like many service/retail jobs, my place of work is often
closed on Sundays, eliminating the conflict altogether.

I
wouldn't say anything, but look at the 2013 road schedule and you'll
find that if you're a road racer who works Saturdays, there's almost
nothing for you after March. This reality may be one of the reasons
that the mighty Cross Crusade sees the level of participation that it
does with the vast majority of its events occurring on Sundays.

Many
Obra members have work schedules that already prohibit them from riding
any stage races, so why make the one-day events so elusive? Why keep
so many riders from handing over their money on race day?

If I'm crazy, tell me I'm crazy. But if you're one of the many Obra riders who will have to races like King's Valley and the Banana Belt because they're not on Sundays, please speak up!

-Erik