Tom Orth

I suspect this would be true for any intersection where there isn't a
dedicated left turn lane with left turn arrow. In other words, any four
way intersection controlled by stoplights without a dedicated left turn
lane with left turn arrow operates such that a green light, when making a
left turn, is to be interpreted the exact same way as a flashing yellow
arrow when there is a dedicated left turn lane (that is to say, yield to
oncoming traffic and turn left when safe to do so).

Basically, what this study shows is that unless you have either an all red
or all green left turn arrow with a dedicated left turn lane, left turns
are relatively dangerous.

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Todd Mobley
wrote:

> Actually, it was a cooperative effort between OSU and PSU that pertains to
> pedestrian safety. OSU was the principal investigator. Here is a link to
> the research:
>
> http://otrec.us/project/484
>
> That's the research that is the basis for the news story. Be careful
> though, the research is really targeted at pedestrian safety in the
> crosswalk. That issue is really rooted in permitted left turns (yielding to
> oncoming traffic) and less so the flashing yellow arrow indication
> specifically.
>
> The research is NOT targeted at driver comprehension of the flashing
> yellow arrow, which was at issue in that bike/car collision at Powell and
> Kane that started this thread. There is plenty of other research on that
> topic.
>
> If you want to form your own opinions without any media spin...
>
> -Todd
>
> Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE | Principal
> Lancaster Engineering | www.lancasterengineering.com
> 321 SW 4th Avenue, Suite 400 | Portland, OR 97204
> O: 503-248-0313 | C: 503-319-9811 | todd@lancasterengineering.com
>
>
> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:25 AM, SB wrote:
>
>> How timely, OSU just completed a study that shows how dangerous
>> "permitted" left hand turns are:
>>
>> http://www.kgw.com/news/Study-finds-permitted-left-turns-put-lives-at-risk-205490761.html
>>
>> I've witnessed a couple of crashes at NE Sandy and 28th between cars who
>> didn't understand the rules...
>>
>> On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Tom Orth wrote:
>> > The blinking yellow arrow is common in most of the country. I'm not
>> sure why, but these are relatively new in Oregon, and I've encountered a
>> number of Oregonians who seem confused by these and I'm not sure why. It's
>> the same as making a left turn when there is no dedicated left turn lane
>> and left turn arrow. You always yield to oncoming traffic. Yellow always
>> means yield/proceed with caution. These are a good thing, especially for
>> cyclists. Sitting at a left turn red arrow, hoping a car comes to trip the
>> green is no fun either.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:
>> > Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a
>> citation for failure to yield.
>> >
>> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>> >
>> >
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
>> > From :Scott Jones
>> > Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
>> > To :OBRA List
>> > CC :
>> >
>> > This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle.
>> This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted
>> that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us
>> on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my
>> bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told
>> the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was
>> more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
>> >
>> > Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice
>> lady named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
>> >
>> > Scott Jones
>> > Damascus Christian High School
>> > Head Track Coach
>> > 971-998-2132
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Todd Mobley

Actually, it was a cooperative effort between OSU and PSU that pertains to
pedestrian safety. OSU was the principal investigator. Here is a link to
the research:

http://otrec.us/project/484

That's the research that is the basis for the news story. Be careful
though, the research is really targeted at pedestrian safety in the
crosswalk. That issue is really rooted in permitted left turns (yielding to
oncoming traffic) and less so the flashing yellow arrow indication
specifically.

The research is NOT targeted at driver comprehension of the flashing yellow
arrow, which was at issue in that bike/car collision at Powell and Kane
that started this thread. There is plenty of other research on that topic.

If you want to form your own opinions without any media spin...

-Todd

Todd E. Mobley, PE, PTOE | Principal
Lancaster Engineering | www.lancasterengineering.com
321 SW 4th Avenue, Suite 400 | Portland, OR 97204
O: 503-248-0313 | C: 503-319-9811 | todd@lancasterengineering.com

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:25 AM, SB wrote:

> How timely, OSU just completed a study that shows how dangerous
> "permitted" left hand turns are:
>
> http://www.kgw.com/news/Study-finds-permitted-left-turns-put-lives-at-risk-205490761.html
>
> I've witnessed a couple of crashes at NE Sandy and 28th between cars who
> didn't understand the rules...
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Tom Orth wrote:
> > The blinking yellow arrow is common in most of the country. I'm not sure
> why, but these are relatively new in Oregon, and I've encountered a number
> of Oregonians who seem confused by these and I'm not sure why. It's the
> same as making a left turn when there is no dedicated left turn lane and
> left turn arrow. You always yield to oncoming traffic. Yellow always means
> yield/proceed with caution. These are a good thing, especially for
> cyclists. Sitting at a left turn red arrow, hoping a car comes to trip the
> green is no fun either.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:
> > Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a
> citation for failure to yield.
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> > From :Scott Jones
> > Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> > To :OBRA List
> > CC :
> >
> > This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle.
> This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted
> that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us
> on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my
> bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told
> the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was
> more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
> >
> > Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady
> named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
> >
> > Scott Jones
> > Damascus Christian High School
> > Head Track Coach
> > 971-998-2132
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

SB

How timely, OSU just completed a study that shows how dangerous "permitted" left hand turns are:
http://www.kgw.com/news/Study-finds-permitted-left-turns-put-lives-at-risk-205490761.html

I've witnessed a couple of crashes at NE Sandy and 28th between cars who didn't understand the rules...

On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Tom Orth wrote:
> The blinking yellow arrow is common in most of the country. I'm not sure why, but these are relatively new in Oregon, and I've encountered a number of Oregonians who seem confused by these and I'm not sure why. It's the same as making a left turn when there is no dedicated left turn lane and left turn arrow. You always yield to oncoming traffic. Yellow always means yield/proceed with caution. These are a good thing, especially for cyclists. Sitting at a left turn red arrow, hoping a car comes to trip the green is no fun either.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:
> Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a citation for failure to yield.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> From :Scott Jones
> Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> To :OBRA List
> CC :
>
> This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle. This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
>
> Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
>
> Scott Jones
> Damascus Christian High School
> Head Track Coach
> 971-998-2132
>

matt Savage

And many cyclists interpret it as "carry on and amble through even a second
or two after it's red..."

-Matt Savage

Instagram: @yeahdude1976
Twitter: @Coldandhungry
Tumblr: www.wetsnap.com
www.tumblr.com/blog/beefquest

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:38 PM, mohair wrote:

> A blinking amber/yellow light means to proceed with caution. A steady
> amber/yellow means stop. Unfortunately, many motorists interpret the
> steady amber/yellow as "speed up and beat the red light."
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Tom Orth wrote:
>
> > The blinking yellow arrow is common in most of the country. I'm not sure
> why, but these are relatively new in Oregon, and I've encountered a number
> of Oregonians who seem confused by these and I'm not sure why. It's the
> same as making a left turn when there is no dedicated left turn lane and
> left turn arrow. You always yield to oncoming traffic. Yellow always
> means yield/proceed with caution. These are a good thing, especially for
> cyclists. Sitting at a left turn red arrow, hoping a car comes to trip the
> green is no fun either.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:
> > Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a
> citation for failure to yield.
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> > From :Scott Jones
> > Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> > To :OBRA List
> > CC :
> >
> > This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle.
> This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted
> that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us
> on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my
> bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told
> the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was
> more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
> >
> > Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady
> named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
> >
> > Scott Jones
> > Damascus Christian High School
> > Head Track Coach
> > 971-998-2132
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Scott Jones

Kevin,

I think I will take your (and others) advice and post her name here.
Hopefully someone knows her, although she is not in the OBRA database. I
tried google and white pages, but there are lots of people with the same
name.

This is what she told me,
Her last name is Bragg,
First name starts with K

Said she lived in Gresham. She was riding a black Trek road bike, and she
looked like she rode a lot as well (giro helmet, rudy glasses, nice shimano
shoes, showers pass jacket, etc.).

____________________________________

Google her name, whitepages.com, anywho.com, whowhere.com. Post last name
and first initial here. We are a community, someone is bound to know her.

Brett Boyles

It is a little disturbing that the police will give a person a ticket for illegal parking but not for running over a cyclist. You still have to pay a ticket even if you didn't see the no parking sign.

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Scott Jones
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 12:50 PM
To: Ken Luke
Cc: OBRA List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.

No Ken, the intersection in question is SE Powell Valley Rd and SE Kane Rd in Gresham. Its one of several of the newly installed (last few months) yellow blinking turn signals.

On another note, I have the woman's name but no contact information. Anyone know how I would go about finding her? I tried Facebook, but no luck. I'd like to send her a note or talk to her about what I saw. The police took my information, but I really don't think they were going to cite the driver after talking with the police at the scene.

Scott Jones
Damascus Christian High School
Head Track Coach
971.998.2132
www.dcs4you.org

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Ken Luke > wrote:
Was this on the I-205 bike path?

On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Kevin > wrote:

> Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a citation for failure to yield.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> From :Scott Jones
> Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> To :OBRA List
> CC :
>
> This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle. This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
>
> Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
>
> Scott Jones
> Damascus Christian High School
> Head Track Coach
> 971-998-2132
------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Luke kenl97216@gmail.com (971)207-6548

"Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
-- Edmund Keane
------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ken Luke

My humor was too subtle, sorry about that. I was trying to make a snarky reference to this story:

http://bikeportland.org/2013/04/22/riders-discover-woman-driving-car-on-glenn-jackson-bridge-bike-path-85780

especially the part where the driver was not cited...

On Apr 30, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Scott Jones wrote:

> No Ken, the intersection in question is SE Powell Valley Rd and SE Kane Rd in Gresham. Its one of several of the newly installed (last few months) yellow blinking turn signals.
>
> On another note, I have the woman's name but no contact information. Anyone know how I would go about finding her? I tried Facebook, but no luck. I'd like to send her a note or talk to her about what I saw. The police took my information, but I really don't think they were going to cite the driver after talking with the police at the scene.
>
> Scott Jones
> Damascus Christian High School
> Head Track Coach
> 971.998.2132
> www.dcs4you.org
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Ken Luke wrote:
> Was this on the I-205 bike path?
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:
>
> > Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a citation for failure to yield.
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> > From :Scott Jones
> > Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> > To :OBRA List
> > CC :
> >
> > This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle. This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
> >
> > Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
> >
> > Scott Jones
> > Damascus Christian High School
> > Head Track Coach
> > 971-998-2132
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Luke kenl97216@gmail.com (971)207-6548
>
> "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
> -- Edmund Keane
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Luke kenl97216@gmail.com (971)207-6548

"Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
-- Edmund Keane
------------------------------------------------------------

mohair

On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:47 AM, Tom Orth wrote:

> The blinking yellow arrow is common in most of the country. I'm not sure why, but these are relatively new in Oregon, and I've encountered a number of Oregonians who seem confused by these and I'm not sure why. It's the same as making a left turn when there is no dedicated left turn lane and left turn arrow. You always yield to oncoming traffic. Yellow always means yield/proceed with caution. These are a good thing, especially for cyclists. Sitting at a left turn red arrow, hoping a car comes to trip the green is no fun either.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:
> Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a citation for failure to yield.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> From :Scott Jones
> Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> To :OBRA List
> CC :
>
> This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle. This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
>
> Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
>
> Scott Jones
> Damascus Christian High School
> Head Track Coach
> 971-998-2132
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Scott Jones

No Ken, the intersection in question is SE Powell Valley Rd and SE Kane Rd
in Gresham. Its one of several of the newly installed (last few months)
yellow blinking turn signals.

On another note, I have the woman's name but no contact information. Anyone
know how I would go about finding her? I tried Facebook, but no luck. I'd
like to send her a note or talk to her about what I saw. The police took my
information, but I really don't think they were going to cite the driver
after talking with the police at the scene.

Scott Jones
Damascus Christian High School
Head Track Coach
971.998.2132
www.dcs4you.org

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Ken Luke wrote:

> Was this on the I-205 bike path?
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:
>
> > Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a
> citation for failure to yield.
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> > From :Scott Jones
> > Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> > To :OBRA List
> > CC :
> >
> > This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle.
> This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted
> that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us
> on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my
> bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told
> the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was
> more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
> >
> > Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady
> named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
> >
> > Scott Jones
> > Damascus Christian High School
> > Head Track Coach
> > 971-998-2132
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Luke kenl97216@gmail.com (971)207-6548
>
> "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
> -- Edmund Keane
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Ken Luke

Was this on the I-205 bike path?

On Apr 30, 2013, at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:

> Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a citation for failure to yield.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> From :Scott Jones
> Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> To :OBRA List
> CC :
>
> This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle. This took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted that stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us on two wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my bike. The woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told the police officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was more required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
>
> Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
>
> Scott Jones
> Damascus Christian High School
> Head Track Coach
> 971-998-2132

------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Luke kenl97216@gmail.com (971)207-6548

"Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
-- Edmund Keane
------------------------------------------------------------

Tom Orth

The blinking yellow arrow is common in most of the country. I'm not sure
why, but these are relatively new in Oregon, and I've encountered a number
of Oregonians who seem confused by these and I'm not sure why. It's the
same as making a left turn when there is no dedicated left turn lane and
left turn arrow. You always yield to oncoming traffic. Yellow always
means yield/proceed with caution. These are a good thing, especially for
cyclists. Sitting at a left turn red arrow, hoping a car comes to trip the
green is no fun either.

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 10:08 AM, Kevin wrote:

> Hopefully ignorance of the law will not allow the driver to avoid a
> citation for failure to yield.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:[OBRA Chat] Be careful out there.
> From :Scott Jones **
> Date :Tue, 30-Apr-2013 09:49
> To :OBRA List **
> CC :
>
> This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle. This
> took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted that
> stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us on two
> wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my bike. The
> woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told the police
> officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was more
> required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.
>
> Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady
> named Kelly (not and OBRA member).
>
> Scott Jones
> Damascus Christian High School
> Head Track Coach
> 971-998-2132
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Scott Jones

This morning I witnessed a head on crash between a car and a bicycle. This
took place at an intersection where the turn lights recently adopted that
stupid yellow left turn blinking arrow. Just another obstacle for us on two
wheels. I don't like them even when I'm driving, let alone on my bike. The
woman who was hit thankfully will be okay, but the driver told the police
officer she thought she had the right of way. I wish there was more
required education for all road users, yes including us on two wheels.

Be careful out there and send healing thoughts or prayers to a nice lady
named Kelly (not and OBRA member).

Scott Jones
Damascus Christian High School
Head Track Coach
971-998-2132