marky mark

Yep. Guess I should stay out of road racing. Last time I road race I remember blocking etc as defensive tactics in Cat 1,2 races in the 90's

On Jun 8, 2013, at 8:34 AM, "dacrizzow" wrote:

> jesus....i haven't been on a bike all year. i pull up this page for old time's sake and THIS is going on?! if it's legal and safe, it's racing. it may be the difference in the "good guys VS. the bad guys" like in WWF but it's a far cry from defining someone as a good or bad person once the race is over. except maybe that "sent to the ground" remark. that guy could maybe use some therapy. yeah, sitting up at the front or disrupting the momentum of a chase for your team mate is negative but being "sent to the ground" is a perfectly acceptable response. let the hatemail begin!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

dacrizzow

jesus....i haven't been on a bike all year. i pull up this page for old time's sake and THIS is going on?! if it's legal and safe, it's racing. it may be the difference in the "good guys VS. the bad guys" like in WWF but it's a far cry from defining someone as a good or bad person once the race is over. except maybe that "sent to the ground" remark. that guy could maybe use some therapy. yeah, sitting up at the front or disrupting the momentum of a chase for your team mate is negative but being "sent to the ground" is a perfectly acceptable response. let the hatemail begin!

Mike Rosenfeld

Yeah BBQ meat salad.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 1:03 PM, David Rosen wrote:

> "ME"? At the front of a road race? Not unless there are donuts at the
> finish, being offered as a prime, I have 2 or 3 in my jersey pocket, or it
> is raining donuts (I can wish for a miracle, can't I?), will I be found at
> the front of a road race.
>
> Now excuse me while I go back to my salad for lunch...
> Dave
>
> *Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID*
>
>
> Tony Dirks wrote:
>
> Rosen? Mixing it up at the front of a road race? HaHaHa
>
> Sorry, Dave. Just kidding, of course. Love ya
>
> ------------------------------
> From: matthewlasala@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:00:03 -0700
> To: rosenfeldma@gmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org; josmking@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Negative Racing - One more
>
> Hmmm...I thought you guys were talking about Dave Rosen?
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:
>
> No worries. People tend to stop listening after Rosen.....
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Joseph King wrote:
>
> Aaaah, that makes sense....that didn't sound like Rosenberg.
>
> Sorry!
>
> Joseph King
> josmking@gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:
>
> In Mike Rosenbergs defense....He is not me.
>
> I am Mike Rosenfeld.
>
> Just to clarify.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Joseph King wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced
> with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or
> loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I
> had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would
> have enough for a pretty good sandwich.
>
> Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring
> referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic:
> disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road
> races.
>
> As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your
> ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative
> tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it.
> Every team has their 'enforcer'.
>
> It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules,
> the officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much
> less when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules
> aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down
> to tacit agreement between racers themselves.
>
> While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it is
> definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all
> amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast,
> please get out of the way.
>
> Thanks
> Joe
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe:
> obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

David Rosen

"ME"? At the front of a road race? Not unless there are donuts at the finish, being offered as a prime, I have 2 or 3 in my jersey pocket, or it is raining donuts (I can wish for a miracle, can't I?), will I be found at the front of a road race.

Now excuse me while I go back to my salad for lunch...
Dave

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Tony Dirks wrote:

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Tony Dirks

Rosen? Mixing it up at the front of a road race? HaHaHa

Sorry, Dave. Just kidding, of course. Love ya

From: matthewlasala@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2013 12:00:03 -0700
To: rosenfeldma@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org; josmking@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Negative Racing - One more

Hmmm...I thought you guys were talking about Dave Rosen?

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:

No worries. People tend to stop listening after Rosen.....

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Joseph King wrote:

Aaaah, that makes sense....that didn't sound like Rosenberg.
Sorry!

Joseph King
josmking@gmail.com

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:

In Mike Rosenbergs defense....He is not me. I am Mike Rosenfeld. Just to clarify.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Joseph King wrote:

Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would have enough for a pretty good sandwich.

Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic: disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road races.

As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it. Every team has their 'enforcer'.

It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules, the officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much less when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down to tacit agreement between racers themselves.

While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it is definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast, please get out of the way.

ThanksJoe

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obra@list.obra.org

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Ormerod, Gilbert

A Rosen by any other name would...

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Matthew Lasala
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 12:00 PM
To: Mike Rosenfeld
Cc: Obra; Joseph King
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Negative Racing - One more

Hmmm...I thought you guys were talking about Dave Rosen?

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Mike Rosenfeld > wrote:
No worries. People tend to stop listening after Rosen.....

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Joseph King > wrote:
Aaaah, that makes sense....that didn't sound like Rosenberg.

Sorry!

Joseph King
josmking@gmail.com

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Mike Rosenfeld > wrote:
In Mike Rosenbergs defense....He is not me.

I am Mike Rosenfeld.

Just to clarify.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Joseph King > wrote:
Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would have enough for a pretty good sandwich.

Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic: disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road races.

As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it. Every team has their 'enforcer'.

It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules, the officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much less when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down to tacit agreement between racers themselves.
While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it is definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast, please get out of the way.

Thanks
Joe

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________

This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete this message.

Matthew Lasala

Hmmm...I thought you guys were talking about Dave Rosen?

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:

> No worries. People tend to stop listening after Rosen.....
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Joseph King wrote:
>
>> Aaaah, that makes sense....that didn't sound like Rosenberg.
>>
>> Sorry!
>>
>> Joseph King
>> josmking@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:
>>
>>> In Mike Rosenbergs defense....He is not me.
>>>
>>> I am Mike Rosenfeld.
>>>
>>> Just to clarify.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Joseph King wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced
>>>> with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or
>>>> loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I
>>>> had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would
>>>> have enough for a pretty good sandwich.
>>>>
>>>> Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring
>>>> referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic:
>>>> disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road
>>>> races.
>>>>
>>>> As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on
>>>> your ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of
>>>> negative tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal
>>>> with it. Every team has their 'enforcer'.
>>>>
>>>> It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules,
>>>> the officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much
>>>> less when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules
>>>> aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down
>>>> to tacit agreement between racers themselves.
>>>>
>>>> While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it
>>>> is definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all
>>>> amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast,
>>>> please get out of the way.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Mike Rosenfeld

No worries. People tend to stop listening after Rosen.....

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Joseph King wrote:

> Aaaah, that makes sense....that didn't sound like Rosenberg.
>
> Sorry!
>
> Joseph King
> josmking@gmail.com
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:
>
>> In Mike Rosenbergs defense....He is not me.
>>
>> I am Mike Rosenfeld.
>>
>> Just to clarify.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Joseph King wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced
>>> with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or
>>> loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I
>>> had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would
>>> have enough for a pretty good sandwich.
>>>
>>> Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring
>>> referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic:
>>> disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road
>>> races.
>>>
>>> As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your
>>> ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative
>>> tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it.
>>> Every team has their 'enforcer'.
>>>
>>> It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules,
>>> the officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much
>>> less when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules
>>> aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down
>>> to tacit agreement between racers themselves.
>>>
>>> While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it
>>> is definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all
>>> amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast,
>>> please get out of the way.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Joe
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Joseph King

Aaaah, that makes sense....that didn't sound like Rosenberg.

Sorry!

Joseph King
josmking@gmail.com

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Mike Rosenfeld wrote:

> In Mike Rosenbergs defense....He is not me.
>
> I am Mike Rosenfeld.
>
> Just to clarify.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Joseph King wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced
>> with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or
>> loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I
>> had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would
>> have enough for a pretty good sandwich.
>>
>> Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring
>> referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic:
>> disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road
>> races.
>>
>> As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your
>> ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative
>> tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it.
>> Every team has their 'enforcer'.
>>
>> It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules,
>> the officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much
>> less when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules
>> aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down
>> to tacit agreement between racers themselves.
>>
>> While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it is
>> definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all
>> amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast,
>> please get out of the way.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>

Candi Murray

Joe

I think you are confusing Rosenberg and Rosenfeld. ;-)

Candi

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Joseph King
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 11:31 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Negative Racing - One more

Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced with
Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or
loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I
had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would
have enough for a pretty good sandwich.

Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring referring
to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic: disrupting or
slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road races.

As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your ass
in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative
tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it.
Every team has their 'enforcer'.

It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules, the
officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much less
when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules aren't
really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down to tacit
agreement between racers themselves.

While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it is
definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all
amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast,
please get out of the way.

Thanks

Joe

Mike Rosenfeld

In Mike Rosenbergs defense....He is not me.

I am Mike Rosenfeld.

Just to clarify.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Joseph King wrote:

> Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced
> with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or
> loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I
> had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would
> have enough for a pretty good sandwich.
>
> Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring
> referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic:
> disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road
> races.
>
> As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your
> ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative
> tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it.
> Every team has their 'enforcer'.
>
> It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules,
> the officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much
> less when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules
> aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down
> to tacit agreement between racers themselves.
>
> While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it is
> definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all
> amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast,
> please get out of the way.
>
> Thanks
> Joe
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Joseph King

Thanks for the input everybody! For the record, I have ridden and raced
with Rosenberg many times, he has fortunately never expressed any hatred or
loathing towards me, though I have always been on the other team. And if I
had a dime for every time he told me to "pull or get off the front" I would
have enough for a pretty good sandwich.

Just a quick clarification: In my original post I wasn't referring
referring to tactics or teamwork in general, just one specific tactic:
disrupting or slowing a chasing paceline. This occurs mostly in longer road
races.

As Bravard mentioned, cutting in on a paceline would get you put on your
ass in a pro level race. I actually can't recall any examples of negative
tactics in Euro racing. But I have experienced how NRC teams deal with it.
Every team has their 'enforcer'.

It is probably also worth mentioning that though bike races have rules, the
officials can only see maybe about 5% of what happens in a race. Much less
when the pack is at full speed and racing is strung out. So the rules
aren't really enforceable, most of what happens in a bike race comes down
to tacit agreement between racers themselves.

While disrupting a paceline might be within the "rules" of cycling, it is
definitely looked down upon at the higher levels of the sport. We're all
amateurs out here to have fun and get fit. If you don't want to ride fast,
please get out of the way.

Thanks
Joe