Pat Sagers
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Erik said: I apologize to anybody I may have offended, but I can't
believe so many free-thinkers were so compelled to stomp someone else's
free-thoughts without a hint of irony. Shame on me.
Listen. Have someone you don't know very well tell you to shut up. How do
you think your significant other would feel if you were tired of their topic
and you just said shut up already? Or how would the folks you race against
feel if you said that to them to their face?
Anyway Erik, you're a very nice guy that I don't think wants to raise the
flag of free speech that includes "shut up already" to very sincere honest
people. Email is not a perfect communication mechanism. We assume too much
because sometimes folks join the discussion late or their email doesn't
arrive in a timely manner or they feel like you and can say anything they
want when they want to.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Long [mailto:elong-@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 10:34 PM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] House bill- shut up already
Pat,
I appreciate your objectivity and you're not the first person to respond to
me with this point of view. I know that this is a good email list.
Everybody tosses their opinions around quite freely. That's part of the
reason for its existence. Everybody seems to enjoy swimming in such a large
pool of opinions until somebody suggests that the water is a bit stale and
needs a change - nobody likes a party pooper.
Everybody else can do what they want and I'm more than willing to delete
anything that doesn't interest me, but sorting through 20 emails daily on
the same topic gets really old (as if there wasn't enough spam in my mailbox
already).
The idea that the house bill was a dead issue was my opinion, nothing more.
Same as everybody else, my 2 cents (which was entertaining to a few people,
believe it or not). I apologize to anybody I may have offended, but I can't
believe so many free-thinkers were so compelled to stomp someone else's
free-thoughts without a hint of irony. Shame on me.
-Erik
----Original Message Follows----
From: Pat Sagers <Pat_S-@orcom.com>
To: "'elong-@hotmail.com'" <elong-@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] House bill- shut up already
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:07:14 -0700
Erik, I am a computer systems engineer and a fairly poor cyclist. I've
ridden with you a couple of times and admire your ability. I want to
comment on your email about this. Nobody really has the right to terminate
a topic except for the email list owner. Usually the only reason this is
done is because the tone has become very unacceptable. I belong to 30 or so
email lists. Some I get in digest form and some one message at a time. I
receive about 3 to 4 hundred messages a day. I've seen one topic last for
weeks with over a thousand messages. In this case there were less than 20.
I don't see any problem with this at all. This group is very self
controlled and really doesn't need comments about getting on with our lives.
I personally did not read many of the messages but if I run across a topic
line that does not suit me, I just select them all and delete them. Big
deal. Just ignore them.
I belong to another group - Table Tennis as I was once a good player and
that group has a bunch of total idiots that flame each other to death. When
the email admin terminates one of their access, they change identities and
rejoin. They will do this sometimes 5 times a day. All the comments about
telling them to shutup seems to only fuel them on. So most of the folks
have given up and just let them rant and rave about totally stupid stuff.
This is a good group, believe me.
My 2 cents.
-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Long [mailto:elong-@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:36 PM
To: john_-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] House bill- shut up already
I think this has been done to death. Let's just drop it and get on with our
lives.
----Original Message Follows----
From: john_-@attbi.com
Reply-To: john_-@attbi.com
To: kj_f-@yahoo.com
CC: ob-@topica.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] House bill
Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 00:53:12 +0000
'Zactly. I'm going to do what I've always done. Stop when it's the
right/safe thing to do, roll through when I can, and assume that anything
with
4 or more wheels is going to do it's level best to kill me.
> You can argue all you want about this bill being a
> waste of the legislatures time and I wouldn't
> disagree. But to say it will have any impact on
> accidents or drivers perception of cyclists is crazy.
> This bill won't effect in the slightest bit how people
> cycle. We will all continue to cycle as we always
> have, all of us. Those who stop fully at stop signs
> (are there any?) will continue to do so and those who
> just slow down, look and roll through will also
> continue. Don't get so worked up over it.
>
> Ken Finch
>
> --- edwardw-@aol.com wrote:
> > I don't know what people are thinking when they send
> > bills like this to
> > Salem. This has to be the one of the dumb ones.
> > Don't we as riders have
> > enough trouble with cars now without this bill. We
> > already ask drivers to
> > watch out for us now and now we ask even more. To
> > come to a stop sign and not
> > come to complete stop just because you don't want
> > get out of your clip
> > piddles is just being lazy.
> > I'm not looking forward to seeing all the people
> > being hit by cars in the
> > chat room. Stop and think about how dumb this bill
> > really is.
> >
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>>Erik said: I apologize to anybody I may have offended, but I can't </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>believe so many free-thinkers were so compelled to stomp someone else's </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>free-thoughts without a hint of irony. Shame on me.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Listen. Have someone you don't know very well tell you to shut up. How do you think your significant other would feel if you were tired of their topic and you just said shut up already? Or how would the folks you race against feel if you said that to them to their face? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Anyway Erik, you're a very nice guy that I don't think wants to raise the flag of free speech that includes "shut up already" to very sincere honest people. Email is not a perfect communication mechanism. We assume too much because sometimes folks join the discussion late or their email doesn't arrive in a timely manner or they feel like you and can say anything they want when they want to.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Pat </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Erik Long [<A HREF="mailto:elong-@hotmail.com">mailto:elong-@hotmail.com</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 10:34 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: ob-@topica.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] House bill- shut up already</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Pat,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I appreciate your objectivity and you're not the first person to respond to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>me with this point of view. I know that this is a good email list. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Everybody tosses their opinions around quite freely. That's part of the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>reason for its existence. Everybody seems to enjoy swimming in such a large </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>pool of opinions until somebody suggests that the water is a bit stale and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>needs a change - nobody likes a party pooper.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Everybody else can do what they want and I'm more than willing to delete </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>anything that doesn't interest me, but sorting through 20 emails daily on </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the same topic gets really old (as if there wasn't enough spam in my mailbox </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>already).</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>The idea that the house bill was a dead issue was my opinion, nothing more. </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Same as everybody else, my 2 cents (which was entertaining to a few people, </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>believe it or not). I apologize to anybody I may have offended, but I can't </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>believe so many free-thinkers were so compelled to stomp someone else's </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>free-thoughts without a hint of irony. Shame on me.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-Erik</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>----Original Message Follows----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Pat Sagers <Pat_S-@orcom.com></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: "'elong-@hotmail.com'" <elong-@hotmail.com></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] House bill- shut up already</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:07:14 -0700</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Erik, I am a computer systems engineer and a fairly poor cyclist. I've</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>ridden with you a couple of times and admire your ability. I want to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>comment on your email about this. Nobody really has the right to terminate</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>a topic except for the email list owner. Usually the only reason this is</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>done is because the tone has become very unacceptable. I belong to 30 or so</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>email lists. Some I get in digest form and some one message at a time. I</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>receive about 3 to 4 hundred messages a day. I've seen one topic last for</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>weeks with over a thousand messages. In this case there were less than 20.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I don't see any problem with this at all. This group is very self</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>controlled and really doesn't need comments about getting on with our lives.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I personally did not read many of the messages but if I run across a topic</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>line that does not suit me, I just select them all and delete them. Big</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>deal. Just ignore them.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I belong to another group - Table Tennis as I was once a good player and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>that group has a bunch of total idiots that flame each other to death. When</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the email admin terminates one of their access, they change identities and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>rejoin. They will do this sometimes 5 times a day. All the comments about</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>telling them to shutup seems to only fuel them on. So most of the folks</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>have given up and just let them rant and rave about totally stupid stuff.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>This is a good group, believe me.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>My 2 cents.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Erik Long [<A HREF="mailto:elong-@hotmail.com">mailto:elong-@hotmail.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 8:36 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: john_-@attbi.com; ob-@topica.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] House bill- shut up already</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I think this has been done to death. Let's just drop it and get on with our</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>lives.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>----Original Message Follows----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: john_-@attbi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Reply-To: john_-@attbi.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: kj_f-@yahoo.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>CC: ob-@topica.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] House bill</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 00:53:12 +0000</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>'Zactly. I'm going to do what I've always done. Stop when it's the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>right/safe thing to do, roll through when I can, and assume that anything</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>with</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>4 or more wheels is going to do it's level best to kill me.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2> > You can argue all you want about this bill being a</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > waste of the legislatures time and I wouldn't</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > disagree. But to say it will have any impact on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > accidents or drivers perception of cyclists is crazy.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > This bill won't effect in the slightest bit how people</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > cycle. We will all continue to cycle as we always</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > have, all of us. Those who stop fully at stop signs</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > (are there any?) will continue to do so and those who</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > just slow down, look and roll through will also</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > continue. Don't get so worked up over it.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> ></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > Ken Finch</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> ></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > --- edwardw-@aol.com wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > I don't know what people are thinking when they send</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > bills like this to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > Salem. This has to be the one of the dumb ones.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > Don't we as riders have</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > enough trouble with cars now without this bill. We</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > already ask drivers to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > watch out for us now and now we ask even more. To</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > come to a stop sign and not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > come to complete stop just because you don't want</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > get out of your clip</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > piddles is just being lazy.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > I'm not looking forward to seeing all the people</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > being hit by cars in the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > chat room. Stop and think about how dumb this bill</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > > really is.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> > ></FONT>
</P>
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<BR>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>NOTICE: This communication may contain proprietary or other confidential business information of Orcom Solutions, Inc. If you are not the intended recipient or believe that you may have received this communication in error, please reply to the sender indicating that fact and delete the copy you received. In addition, you should not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Thank you. </FONT></P>
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