Adam Kennedy

Correction: Some TTcuppers are going to Eugene, for sure. It's the best
15mi flat TT course in the state.

Just saying,
AMK

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Stephen Salter
wrote:

> it seems to me that the events are different enough that there isnt much
> overlapping demand. its not like theres 3 cross races at the same time. TT
> cuppers are not going to go to Eugene, for stage racers its an easy choice,
> the cx folks couldnt care less about any of the other races except for
> training for cx, and the trackies tend to not care to ride up hills. just
> one persons perspective.
>
> On Tuesday, August 20, 2013, craig austin wrote:
>
>> I think Jon's point is, did the four promoters of this weekend's races
>> ever consider the calendar? Did they ever talk to each other or think about
>> maybe taking an available date? I'm not a promoter and while I greatly
>> respect and appreciate what they do, I sometimes wonder whether they're
>> taking into account the old supply and demand thing. Sundays are
>> traditional racing days, and with four races and four consecutive Sundays,
>> I think it's a legitimate question as to why all four races are on the same
>> Sunday with the other three left open. Jon appears to be concerned that the
>> promoters are shooting themselves in the foot, as evidenced by the message
>> this morning from the promoter of the Wildcat Mountain TT, saying that it's
>> in danger of cancellation due to low numbers.
>>
>> Well, maybe the low numbers have something to do with the fact that
>> Wildcat is only 25% of the available supply of races that day. Instead of
>> directing the 'boo hoo' comment at Jon, why not direct it at the promoter
>> who says he's not getting enough preregistrations to run his event?
>>
>> Of course, it's not that simple. Like Jon pointed out, the calendar is
>> set quite awhile in advance, permits are needed, and timing isn't always
>> easy to change. But if promoters can't take supply into account, they can't
>> complain about lack of demand.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shane Gibson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Boo hoo ... too many choices. What a horrible problem to deal with.
>>> Produce something yourself on those other weekends.
>>>
>>> ~~shane
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "...the way you view the world, through the filters of your conditioning
>>> and perceptions,
>>> is neither right nor wrong, it's just your view. Does it serve you, or
>>> do you serve it?"
>>> Chris Joosse
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Jon Myers wrote:
>>>
>>>> This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a
>>>> track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races
>>>> and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were
>>>> some cancelations the open Sundays.
>>>> I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting
>>>> from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive
>>>> and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
>>>> -Jon
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

eric aldinger

There is also at least one great race Saturday. Too many options, not
enoigh training.
On Aug 20, 2013 9:04 AM, "Jon Myers" wrote:

> This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a
> track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races
> and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were
> some cancelations the open Sundays.
> I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting
> from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive
> and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
> -Jon
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Eric

Occasionally, a promoter has to put on an event on a specific day, or during
a specific period, or is otherwise limited. Sometimes it is a certain date
or not at all.

== Eric

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Erik Voldengen
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:44 PM
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Racing Schedule

There is always overlap, and multiple events on the same day make logistics
harder. There's a limited number of OBRA resources. I think two trucks and
a trailer. Limited number of officials. And each overlapping event does
take away some potential participants.

The race calendar is largely sorted out before the season even begins.
Other events trickle in after that. Four events on one day is preventable
if all four promoters try to prevent overlap. If an event is already
scheduled, and another promoter schedules something on the same day, that
can cause difficulties.

Some promoters are aware of this and check the calendar. Some don't. It
would be nice if everyone did, and worked together, but putting on a race is
a lot of work and any time put into it is time away from work, family,
riding, etc. I think a good step in the process would be to check the
existing calendar, along with the adjacent weekends, and see how that looks.

Erik Voldengen

There is always overlap, and multiple events on the same day make logistics
harder. There's a limited number of OBRA resources. I think two trucks
and a trailer. Limited number of officials. And each overlapping event
does take away some potential participants.

The race calendar is largely sorted out before the season even begins.
Other events trickle in after that. Four events on one day is
preventable if all four promoters try to prevent overlap. If an event is
already scheduled, and another promoter schedules something on the same
day, that can cause difficulties.

Some promoters are aware of this and check the calendar. Some don't. It
would be nice if everyone did, and worked together, but putting on a race
is a lot of work and any time put into it is time away from work, family,
riding, etc. I think a good step in the process would be to check the
existing calendar, along with the adjacent weekends, and see how that looks.

- Erik

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Jon Myers wrote:

> Craig correctly interpreted my comments. Personally I can’t do any
> of the races this weekend but would have done any of the non-track events
> if there was not a conflicting event that day. I think there is a some
> amount of overlap between disciplines and late in the year conflicting
> events will reduce the number people attending any single race. I will do a
> mountain bike race first, a cross race second, road race 3rd and TT last.
> So, if there is a good mountain bike race on a day I will go to that. If
> there is not a mountain bike race or cross race I would do a road race.
> I don’t put on the Cross Crusade. That is Brad’s job. I have been a
> part of the Crusade organization for 10+ years and will be happily
> requesting you show your OBRA license in about 6 weeks when you are
> checking into the race. Enjoy the rest of the summer. -Jon
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Evan Plews

I agree with Jon. I don't race as much anymore but it seems odd that there are any "open" dates on the calendar with so many OBRA sanctioned events. Of course we could begin the discussion as to why there are no MTB events this the BEST time of year to ride but lets NOT!
Anyway after so many years, its seems that scheduling of events should be a primary function of OBRA. By OBRA I don't mean Kenji or Candy or any other individual rather the community of racers and promoters. Hopefully this can become a priority in the future because we don't really need more events but to improve the quality and attendance of the ones we have. This may mean dumping the promoters who screw up and only allowing one skinny tire, fat tire and cross tire event per day in the future. Maybe the territory needs split into regions (north, far east) to take into consideration the fact that folks from Portland may not be inclined to travel to Ashland and vice versa.
In any case there should NEVER be two MTB, cross or road/track/tt races on the same day until every date is taken IMHO.

Evan Plews
www.evanplews.com
503-949-4879

> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2013 10:49:42 -0700
> From: jonemyers@lycos.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Racing Schedule
>
> Craig correctly interpreted my comments. Personally I can’t do any of the races this weekend but would have done any of the non-track events if there was not a conflicting event that day. I think there is a some amount of overlap between disciplines and late in the year conflicting events will reduce the number people attending any single race. I will do a mountain bike race first, a cross race second, road race 3rd and TT last. So, if there is a good mountain bike race on a day I will go to that. If there is not a mountain bike race or cross race I would do a road race.
> I don’t put on the Cross Crusade. That is Brad’s job. I have been a part of the Crusade organization for 10+ years and will be happily requesting you show your OBRA license in about 6 weeks when you are checking into the race. Enjoy the rest of the summer. -Jon
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

Jon
As the person responsible for scheduling the officals this has been a
nightmare.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jon Myers
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:04 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Racing Schedule

This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a track
race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races and the
two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were some
cancelations the open Sundays.
I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting from
cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive and
designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
-Jon
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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matt Savage

But they're all unique and different events, targeting different types of
racers... Those who specialize or prefer one style of racing over another
have their option and will be at that race regardless of whatever else is
taking place that day. It's not like on October 26th or Nov. 2nd where
there are 3 different cross races on each day.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:54 AM, craig austin wrote:

> I think Jon's point is, did the four promoters of this weekend's races
> ever consider the calendar? Did they ever talk to each other or think about
> maybe taking an available date? I'm not a promoter and while I greatly
> respect and appreciate what they do, I sometimes wonder whether they're
> taking into account the old supply and demand thing. Sundays are
> traditional racing days, and with four races and four consecutive Sundays,
> I think it's a legitimate question as to why all four races are on the same
> Sunday with the other three left open. Jon appears to be concerned that the
> promoters are shooting themselves in the foot, as evidenced by the message
> this morning from the promoter of the Wildcat Mountain TT, saying that it's
> in danger of cancellation due to low numbers.
>
> Well, maybe the low numbers have something to do with the fact that
> Wildcat is only 25% of the available supply of races that day. Instead of
> directing the 'boo hoo' comment at Jon, why not direct it at the promoter
> who says he's not getting enough preregistrations to run his event?
>
> Of course, it's not that simple. Like Jon pointed out, the calendar is set
> quite awhile in advance, permits are needed, and timing isn't always easy
> to change. But if promoters can't take supply into account, they can't
> complain about lack of demand.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shane Gibson wrote:
>
>>
>> Boo hoo ... too many choices. What a horrible problem to deal with.
>> Produce something yourself on those other weekends.
>>
>> ~~shane
>>
>>
>> --
>> "...the way you view the world, through the filters of your conditioning
>> and perceptions,
>> is neither right nor wrong, it's just your view. Does it serve you, or
>> do you serve it?"
>> Chris Joosse
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Jon Myers wrote:
>>
>>> This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a
>>> track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races
>>> and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were
>>> some cancelations the open Sundays.
>>> I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting
>>> from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive
>>> and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
>>> -Jon
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Stephen Salter

it seems to me that the events are different enough that there isnt much
overlapping demand. its not like theres 3 cross races at the same time. TT
cuppers are not going to go to Eugene, for stage racers its an easy choice,
the cx folks couldnt care less about any of the other races except for
training for cx, and the trackies tend to not care to ride up hills. just
one persons perspective.

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013, craig austin wrote:

> I think Jon's point is, did the four promoters of this weekend's races
> ever consider the calendar? Did they ever talk to each other or think about
> maybe taking an available date? I'm not a promoter and while I greatly
> respect and appreciate what they do, I sometimes wonder whether they're
> taking into account the old supply and demand thing. Sundays are
> traditional racing days, and with four races and four consecutive Sundays,
> I think it's a legitimate question as to why all four races are on the same
> Sunday with the other three left open. Jon appears to be concerned that the
> promoters are shooting themselves in the foot, as evidenced by the message
> this morning from the promoter of the Wildcat Mountain TT, saying that it's
> in danger of cancellation due to low numbers.
>
> Well, maybe the low numbers have something to do with the fact that
> Wildcat is only 25% of the available supply of races that day. Instead of
> directing the 'boo hoo' comment at Jon, why not direct it at the promoter
> who says he's not getting enough preregistrations to run his event?
>
> Of course, it's not that simple. Like Jon pointed out, the calendar is set
> quite awhile in advance, permits are needed, and timing isn't always easy
> to change. But if promoters can't take supply into account, they can't
> complain about lack of demand.
>
> Craig
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shane Gibson
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Boo hoo ... too many choices. What a horrible problem to deal with.
>> Produce something yourself on those other weekends.
>>
>> ~~shane
>>
>>
>> --
>> "...the way you view the world, through the filters of your conditioning
>> and perceptions,
>> is neither right nor wrong, it's just your view. Does it serve you, or
>> do you serve it?"
>> Chris Joosse
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Jon Myers
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a
>>> track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races
>>> and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were
>>> some cancelations the open Sundays.
>>> I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting
>>> from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive
>>> and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
>>> -Jon
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org >> 'obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org > 'obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org');>
>>
>>
>

Nathan Gibson

Cool story Bro.

craig austin

I think Jon's point is, did the four promoters of this weekend's races ever
consider the calendar? Did they ever talk to each other or think about
maybe taking an available date? I'm not a promoter and while I greatly
respect and appreciate what they do, I sometimes wonder whether they're
taking into account the old supply and demand thing. Sundays are
traditional racing days, and with four races and four consecutive Sundays,
I think it's a legitimate question as to why all four races are on the same
Sunday with the other three left open. Jon appears to be concerned that the
promoters are shooting themselves in the foot, as evidenced by the message
this morning from the promoter of the Wildcat Mountain TT, saying that it's
in danger of cancellation due to low numbers.

Well, maybe the low numbers have something to do with the fact that Wildcat
is only 25% of the available supply of races that day. Instead of directing
the 'boo hoo' comment at Jon, why not direct it at the promoter who says
he's not getting enough preregistrations to run his event?

Of course, it's not that simple. Like Jon pointed out, the calendar is set
quite awhile in advance, permits are needed, and timing isn't always easy
to change. But if promoters can't take supply into account, they can't
complain about lack of demand.

Craig

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shane Gibson wrote:

>
> Boo hoo ... too many choices. What a horrible problem to deal with.
> Produce something yourself on those other weekends.
>
> ~~shane
>
>
> --
> "...the way you view the world, through the filters of your conditioning
> and perceptions,
> is neither right nor wrong, it's just your view. Does it serve you, or do
> you serve it?"
> Chris Joosse
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Jon Myers wrote:
>
>> This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a
>> track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races
>> and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were
>> some cancelations the open Sundays.
>> I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting
>> from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive
>> and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
>> -Jon
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Daniel Porter

Shane - you do realize that Jon puts on the Cross Crusade, don't you?   I think he has his hands full for all of our benefit. 

________________________________
From: Shane Gibson
To: Jon Myers
Cc: OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2013 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Racing Schedule

Boo hoo ... too many choices.  What a horrible problem to deal with.  Produce something yourself on those other weekends.

~~shane

--
"...the way you view the world, through the filters of your conditioning and  perceptions,
is neither right  nor wrong, it's just your view. Does it serve you, or do you serve it?"
Chris Joosse

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Jon Myers wrote:

   This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races.  There is a TT, a stage race, a track race, and a cross/crit race.  The Sunday before there were no races and the two Sundays after there are no races.  It appears that there were some cancelations the open Sundays.
>   I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
>   -Jon
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

matt Savage

I really wanted to be the first person to heckle about this... Oh well,
I'll pull the cliche out of the bag anyway...
#firstworldmiddleagedwhiteguyproblems

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Shane Gibson wrote:

>
> Boo hoo ... too many choices. What a horrible problem to deal with.
> Produce something yourself on those other weekends.
>
> ~~shane
>
>
> --
> "...the way you view the world, through the filters of your conditioning
> and perceptions,
> is neither right nor wrong, it's just your view. Does it serve you, or do
> you serve it?"
> Chris Joosse
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Jon Myers wrote:
>
>> This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a
>> track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races
>> and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were
>> some cancelations the open Sundays.
>> I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting
>> from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive
>> and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
>> -Jon
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Shane Gibson

Boo hoo ... too many choices. What a horrible problem to deal with.
Produce something yourself on those other weekends.

~~shane

--
"...the way you view the world, through the filters of your conditioning
and perceptions,
is neither right nor wrong, it's just your view. Does it serve you, or do
you serve it?"
Chris Joosse

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 9:03 AM, Jon Myers wrote:

> This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a
> track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races
> and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were
> some cancelations the open Sundays.
> I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting
> from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive
> and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
> -Jon
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Jon Myers

This Sunday there are 4 OBRA races. There is a TT, a stage race, a track race, and a cross/crit race. The Sunday before there were no races and the two Sundays after there are no races. It appears that there were some cancelations the open Sundays.
I know it very difficult to change dates of events due to permitting from cities or counties but 4 events on one Sunday seems a bit excessive and designed to minimize the participation at all the events.
-Jon