Stewart Campbell

So I'm reading all of this and learning from everyone's comments.
I do hope that other cx beginners are reading this thread.  In the beginners, we race with no other cat, so a lot of this "passing" other cats does not fully pertain to us.  Except out at blind date, from what I read earlier this week.
Today's race I saw some great passing and some horrible blocking.  I assume that is a higher cat where you guys stay closer, blocking does happen to a certain degree, but in the beginners, blocking makes no sence.  I mean to if the pack is strung out and then you block some one, you are not just preventing yourself from coming in one spot lower but you could be preventing that other rider from coming in 5 spots higher.
I don't want to name names, but today I kept on trying to pass a rider wither lower technical skills, once I finally got around, he said good pass then he sprinted ahead of me just to slow right back down going into the next technical area.  Why say "good pass" just to deliberately  cut them off?
On the other hand, I did see a lot of good passing and great communication among the beginners.  One rider went down in front of me and he slid and rolled forcing me in to the side ribbon, as he was getting up and noticed that he screwed me up, he apologized.  I politely said no worries, good recovery.  Later on I lapped a rider and I said "on your left", he slid over to let me pass and I then shouted "follow my line" to help teach him how to read one of the turns, he shouted back, "Thanks".
So remember beginners...be aggressive, communicate, but don't be a deliberate jerk to those riders that are faster than you.

Oh yea, if you have a mechanical...don't fix it right in the middle of the course!!!

My $0.02

-Stewart

________________________________
From: "rondot@spiritone.com"
To: Jay ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Passing

John and Jay,
Take no personal offense from the following.  It is my perspective.
Mike has good points about different cats in same race changing the
atmosphere of a race.  It is fact.  It is not top UCI race with all riders
possessing a very similar skillset.
I think you will find a good number of racers who feel like you do in
varying degrees....and most of them are quite serious about their training,
intervals, spin days, days off etc.  But not everyone approaches racing from
that view.  Myself included in that group.  I appreciate the effort you
folks put in, but it does not make your race one bit more important than my
race.
I agree (in general) with you about where the bikes are in relation to each
other on the course with regard to which rider has the advantage/line.  But
for me it is not worth taking another rider down or myself as well just to
get through a corner first for example.  Especially if the rider is not even
in my cat. (back to Mikes point).  I say this even if one of the 60+ guys
might close a gap on me if I need to slow to wait for a better pass line.  I
feel it is important to be respectful to all the riders / not just those you
feel your equal on the course (you can still crush their arse results-wise).
As important as you think your race might be, it really is no more important
than another rider's race.  I believe we need to respect the dignity of each
other even if we have different perspectives on life or in this case racing
skills / experience.  You can disagree with me, but truth is there is no way
you and or I can be proved to be right......it is just what we believe.
When taken to the extremes......it is the difference in "beliefs" that has
been the cause of more human suffering than anything natural disasters have
dished out.
I hope your future races are more pleasant places for you occupy.
ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:13 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Passing

"I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a
lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing
when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:

This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel an
'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If
not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as
the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that
the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or
hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb
moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is
making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat?
Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them,
not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do
I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my
line!

If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact with
others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your ride.
But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to give a
lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass."

Exactly!
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rondot@spiritone.com

John and Jay,
Take no personal offense from the following. It is my perspective.
Mike has good points about different cats in same race changing the
atmosphere of a race. It is fact. It is not top UCI race with all riders
possessing a very similar skillset.
I think you will find a good number of racers who feel like you do in
varying degrees....and most of them are quite serious about their training,
intervals, spin days, days off etc. But not everyone approaches racing from
that view. Myself included in that group. I appreciate the effort you
folks put in, but it does not make your race one bit more important than my
race.
I agree (in general) with you about where the bikes are in relation to each
other on the course with regard to which rider has the advantage/line. But
for me it is not worth taking another rider down or myself as well just to
get through a corner first for example. Especially if the rider is not even
in my cat. (back to Mikes point). I say this even if one of the 60+ guys
might close a gap on me if I need to slow to wait for a better pass line. I
feel it is important to be respectful to all the riders / not just those you
feel your equal on the course (you can still crush their arse results-wise).
As important as you think your race might be, it really is no more important
than another rider's race. I believe we need to respect the dignity of each
other even if we have different perspectives on life or in this case racing
skills / experience. You can disagree with me, but truth is there is no way
you and or I can be proved to be right......it is just what we believe.
When taken to the extremes......it is the difference in "beliefs" that has
been the cause of more human suffering than anything natural disasters have
dished out.
I hope your future races are more pleasant places for you occupy.
ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 3:13 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Passing

"I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a
lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing
when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:

This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel an
'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If
not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as
the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that
the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or
hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb
moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is
making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat?
Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them,
not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do
I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my
line!

If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact with
others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your ride.
But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to give a
lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass."

Exactly!
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Tom Orth

You all are making this CCX thing sound an awful lot like the spring water
corridor.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Jonathan Vinson wrote:

> Mike,
>
> Your fellow racers were all correct. You were passed, in succession, by
> the leaders of the Mst B, B, C, and Mst 45+ races. Word on the street is
> that the Beginner's leader was bearing down on you as well. You are not
> eligible to race in the women's race; the appropriate OBRA officials have
> been notified.
>
> JV
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>
>> I think this analysis might make sense if there was only a single race
>> (category) on the course AND lapped riders are being pulled out. They do
>> that for CCX many places. We don't do that at most OBRA races. This makes
>> the whole deal a lot more fun and friendly but also makes it so that faster
>> riders are often stuck behind much slower and less proficient riders. This
>> requires that everyone be a bit more aware of their surroundings. Slower
>> riders need to be considerate in yielding to faster passing riders and
>> passing riders need to be considerate when they pass.
>>
>> On an aside note, I rode my first CCX race in several years last week.
>> During the race I was passed by several people, often in succession, each
>> of which whom called out "race leader". I think that might have finally
>> have revealed to me why so many people like cross so much. They all seem to
>> think that they are winning.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Sep 21, 2013, at 14:57, John Ayres wrote:
>> >
>> > I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen
>> a lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and
>> announcing when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:
>> >
>> > This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel
>> an 'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If
>> not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as
>> the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that
>> the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or
>> hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb
>> moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who
>> is making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat?
>> Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them,
>> not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah?
>> Do I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my
>> line!
>> >
>> > If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact
>> with others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your
>> ride. But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to
>> give a lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Brian D. Hart, Sr.

...and, might I add, don't cuss out the guy in front when you fail to
announce your pass, and he then takes a line you did not anticipate. That
happened to me at the Halloween CX Crusades last year. Not only did the
passer get his handlebar thoroughly tangled with my rear spokes, but he
wasted his oxygen supply cursing at me for not holding my line. I was
holding my line--the same one I had planned well before the corner; it just
was not the line he wanted me to take. And he had done nothing to let me
know he was coming so I could adjust my line to give him his, which I would
gladly have done (when you are slow, you get a lot of practice at yielding
lines). Then he repeated the performance the next day on a different corner!
In my experience, these were exceptions; nonetheless, getting blasted
verbally by some 15th-place guy lapping 48th-place me still took much of the
joy out of my weekend. Funny thing, though: for some reason, I found no
reason to curse back. I just sprinted long enough to catch up and apologize,
then returned to a pace where I could breathe again.

Some of us are so slow that we have to race with our heads instead of our
legs. Picking good lines and planning hole shots is an integral part of an
off-road strategy that can often shave off a quarter of a second here or
there so we can finish that much less behind the rest of the pack. It might
even keep us on the leader's lap occasionally. Despite what my children
might think sometimes, I do not have eyes in the back of my head. I will
give you whatever line you want if I know you are there and can figure out
where you want to go, but understand that unless you give me some indication
that you are back there and want to pass, my energies are devoted to
scheming how to pass the guy in front of me (should I be lucky enough to
even catch him), not watching my backside for someone that forgot to leave
his attitude at home. And my plan might even involve the dreaded
outside/inside/outside, not-parallel-to-the-cones line when cornering...

The bottom line: announce your pass if necessary for safety (or even
courtesy, occasionally, when breath will allow), don't complain when someone
else passes silently, understand that holding your line off-road can mean
something different in CX than in road or track, where the speeds and
surface preclude these types of lines, and take responsibility if you cause
a crash by misreading the line of the rider in front of you.

As Mike pointed out, dirt is for potatoes, so let's all at least try to be
responsible potatoes:)

T. Kenji Sugahara

Mike has been determined to be eligible to race in the unicorn
category and/or the kiddie race.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 3:53 PM, Jonathan Vinson wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Your fellow racers were all correct. You were passed, in succession, by the
> leaders of the Mst B, B, C, and Mst 45+ races. Word on the street is that
> the Beginner's leader was bearing down on you as well. You are not eligible
> to race in the women's race; the appropriate OBRA officials have been
> notified.
>
> JV
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Mike Murray wrote:
>>
>> I think this analysis might make sense if there was only a single race
>> (category) on the course AND lapped riders are being pulled out. They do
>> that for CCX many places. We don't do that at most OBRA races. This makes
>> the whole deal a lot more fun and friendly but also makes it so that faster
>> riders are often stuck behind much slower and less proficient riders. This
>> requires that everyone be a bit more aware of their surroundings. Slower
>> riders need to be considerate in yielding to faster passing riders and
>> passing riders need to be considerate when they pass.
>>
>> On an aside note, I rode my first CCX race in several years last week.
>> During the race I was passed by several people, often in succession, each of
>> which whom called out "race leader". I think that might have finally have
>> revealed to me why so many people like cross so much. They all seem to think
>> that they are winning.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Sep 21, 2013, at 14:57, John Ayres wrote:
>> >
>> > I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a
>> > lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing
>> > when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:
>> >
>> > This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel
>> > an 'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If
>> > not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as
>> > the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that
>> > the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or
>> > hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb
>> > moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is
>> > making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat?
>> > Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them,
>> > not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do
>> > I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my
>> > line!
>> >
>> > If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact
>> > with others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your
>> > ride. But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to
>> > give a lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Mike Murray

I am pretty sure that I was passed by everyone in the race. I was only
saved from finishing DFL by the fact that some other poor soul had a
mechanical. Most have been a bad one as I actually passed HIM at one point.

At any rate as I have always thought was the case, pavement if for racing,
dirt is for potatoes.

Mike

From: Jonathan Vinson [mailto:jvbiker@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 15:53
To: Mike Murray
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Passing

Mike,

Your fellow racers were all correct. You were passed, in succession, by the
leaders of the Mst B, B, C, and Mst 45+ races. Word on the street is that
the Beginner's leader was bearing down on you as well. You are not eligible
to race in the women's race; the appropriate OBRA officials have been
notified.

JV

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

I think this analysis might make sense if there was only a single race
(category) on the course AND lapped riders are being pulled out. They do
that for CCX many places. We don't do that at most OBRA races. This makes
the whole deal a lot more fun and friendly but also makes it so that faster
riders are often stuck behind much slower and less proficient riders. This
requires that everyone be a bit more aware of their surroundings. Slower
riders need to be considerate in yielding to faster passing riders and
passing riders need to be considerate when they pass.

On an aside note, I rode my first CCX race in several years last week.
During the race I was passed by several people, often in succession, each of
which whom called out "race leader". I think that might have finally have
revealed to me why so many people like cross so much. They all seem to think
that they are winning.

Mike Murray
Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 21, 2013, at 14:57, John Ayres wrote:
>
> I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a
lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing
when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:
>
> This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel an
'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If
not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as
the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that
the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or
hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb
moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is
making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat?
Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them,
not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do
I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my
line!
>
> If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact with
others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your ride.
But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to give a
lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jonathan Vinson

Mike,

Your fellow racers were all correct. You were passed, in succession, by the
leaders of the Mst B, B, C, and Mst 45+ races. Word on the street is that
the Beginner's leader was bearing down on you as well. You are not eligible
to race in the women's race; the appropriate OBRA officials have been
notified.

JV

On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

> I think this analysis might make sense if there was only a single race
> (category) on the course AND lapped riders are being pulled out. They do
> that for CCX many places. We don't do that at most OBRA races. This makes
> the whole deal a lot more fun and friendly but also makes it so that faster
> riders are often stuck behind much slower and less proficient riders. This
> requires that everyone be a bit more aware of their surroundings. Slower
> riders need to be considerate in yielding to faster passing riders and
> passing riders need to be considerate when they pass.
>
> On an aside note, I rode my first CCX race in several years last week.
> During the race I was passed by several people, often in succession, each
> of which whom called out "race leader". I think that might have finally
> have revealed to me why so many people like cross so much. They all seem to
> think that they are winning.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Sep 21, 2013, at 14:57, John Ayres wrote:
> >
> > I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a
> lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing
> when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:
> >
> > This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel
> an 'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If
> not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as
> the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that
> the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or
> hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb
> moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who
> is making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat?
> Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them,
> not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah?
> Do I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my
> line!
> >
> > If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact
> with others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your
> ride. But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to
> give a lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Candi Murray

Mike-
Everyone but you were winning

Candi

On Sep 21, 2013, at 3:15 PM, Mike Murray wrote:

> I think this analysis might make sense if there was only a single race (category) on the course AND lapped riders are being pulled out. They do that for CCX many places. We don't do that at most OBRA races. This makes the whole deal a lot more fun and friendly but also makes it so that faster riders are often stuck behind much slower and less proficient riders. This requires that everyone be a bit more aware of their surroundings. Slower riders need to be considerate in yielding to faster passing riders and passing riders need to be considerate when they pass.
>
> On an aside note, I rode my first CCX race in several years last week. During the race I was passed by several people, often in succession, each of which whom called out "race leader". I think that might have finally have revealed to me why so many people like cross so much. They all seem to think that they are winning.
>
> Mike Murray
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Sep 21, 2013, at 14:57, John Ayres wrote:
>>
>> I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:
>>
>> This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel an 'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat? Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them, not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my line!
>>
>> If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact with others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your ride. But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to give a lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Mike Murray

I think this analysis might make sense if there was only a single race (category) on the course AND lapped riders are being pulled out. They do that for CCX many places. We don't do that at most OBRA races. This makes the whole deal a lot more fun and friendly but also makes it so that faster riders are often stuck behind much slower and less proficient riders. This requires that everyone be a bit more aware of their surroundings. Slower riders need to be considerate in yielding to faster passing riders and passing riders need to be considerate when they pass.

On an aside note, I rode my first CCX race in several years last week. During the race I was passed by several people, often in succession, each of which whom called out "race leader". I think that might have finally have revealed to me why so many people like cross so much. They all seem to think that they are winning.

Mike Murray
Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 21, 2013, at 14:57, John Ayres wrote:
>
> I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:
>
> This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel an 'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat? Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them, not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my line!
>
> If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact with others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your ride. But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to give a lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Jay

"I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:

This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel an 'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat? Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them, not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my line!

If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact with others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your ride. But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to give a lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass."

Exactly!

John Ayres

I just wanted to give my input about passing during races. I have seen a lot of people comment one way or another about making passes and announcing when you are going to pass. Here are my feelings:

This is racing. Expect to get passed. If you are going to pass and feel an 'on your left' or 'left' is necessary and you have the breath, do it. If not, be courteous and don't try and pass in a dumb spot. it's your job as the pass-er to not get in the way of the pass-ee. If you are annoyed that the guy behind you just passed you, ride harder, or get out of the way, or hold your line and fight for your position. This is RACING. Don't make dumb moves and pass in a bad spot, also, don't be a jerk and block someone who is making a good pass. My rule of thumb: Is my handlebar behind their seat? Yeah? Guess what? I'm loosing to them. time to ride harder and PASS them, not complain about being cut off. Am I in front of their handlebar? Yeah? Do I want it to stay that way? Then I guess I better ride hard and hold my line!

If your are timid and don't feel comfortable racing in close contact with others that is just fine. Move over, let people pass you and ride your ride. But for those of us that come out to race, I don't feel the need to give a lung dumping and overly courteous 'on your left' with every pass.